linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH] uio_pci_generic does not export memory resources

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Message-ID: <1339349905.26976.306.camel@ul30vt>
Date:	Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:38:25 -0600
From:	Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@...hat.com>
To:	"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
Cc:	"Hans J. Koch" <hjk@...sjkoch.de>,
	Andreas Hartmann <andihartmann@...19freenet.de>,
	Dominic Eschweiler <eschweiler@...s.uni-frankfurt.de>,
	Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@...mens.com>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	kvm@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] uio_pci_generic does not export memory resources

On Sun, 2012-06-10 at 19:44 +0300, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 10:09:26AM -0600, Alex Williamson wrote:
> > On Sun, 2012-06-10 at 17:18 +0300, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jun 08, 2012 at 11:11:16AM -0600, Alex Williamson wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 2012-06-08 at 18:44 +0200, Hans J. Koch wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, Jun 08, 2012 at 06:16:18PM +0200, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> > > > > > Hi Dominic,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Dominic Eschweiler wrote:
> > > > > > > Am Freitag, den 08.06.2012, 08:16 -0600 schrieb Alex Williamson:
> > > > > > >> Yes, thanks Jan.  This is exactly what VFIO does.  VFIO provides
> > > > > > >> secure config space access, resource access, DMA mapping services, and
> > > > > > >> full interrupt support to userspace.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > VFIO is not a "better UIO". It *requires* an IOMMU. Dominic didn't say on
> > > > > what CPU he's working, so it's not clear if he can use VFIO at all.
> > > > > 
> > > > > UIO is intended for general use with devices that have mappable registers
> > > > > and don't fit into any other subsystem. No more, no less.
> > > > 
> > > > VFIO is a secure UIO.
> > > 
> > > A secure UIO *for VFs*. I think that's why it's called VFIO :).
> > > Other stuff sometimes also works but no real guarantees, though
> > > VFIO tries to make sure you don't burn yourself too badly
> > > if it breaks.
> > 
> > We do a little better than that.  Multifunction devices that don't
> > explicitly report ACS support are grouped together, so we have security
> > for multifunction devices as well.
> 
> How can you get security with insecure hardware?
> 
> So you prevent the device from writing to host memory? Cool.
> Now guest puts a virus on an on-card flash, the
> moment device is assigned to another VM it will own that,
> or host if it's enabled in host.
> 
> I can make up more silliness.  Buggy userspace can brick the device,
> e.g. by damaging the internal eeprom memory, and these things were known
> to happen even by accident.
> 
> Simply put if you want secure userspace drivers you must be able to
> trust your hardware for security and the only hardware that promises you
> security is a VF in an SRIOV device.

Next I suppose you're going to say assigning a NIC to a guest is
insecure because it could host a malicious OS that infects other systems
on the network.  So to clarify, by secure, I mean that users of VFIO
devices don't have access to the host.  The host still needs to be
suspicious of any data the user might have tainted after a device is
returned.

> > Either single of multifunction PFs
> > can have an option ROM, but since there's no defined mechanism to
> > program the ROM, we can't protect it.  Secure boot actually helps us
> > here since the ROM loaded by the host BIOS or drivers would need to
> > verify the ROM before using it.  Note that secure boot will likely close
> > off the pci-sysfs path uio_pci and KVM device assignment use to get
> > resources since it allows unprotected access to the system.  VFIO
> > provides an interface where we control secure access, so should be
> > compatible with secure boot.  Thanks,
> > 
> > Alex
> 
> IMHO all this means VFIO *works* not just for VFs.
> Not that it's secure.

By your argument above, not even VFs are "secure".  A user could just as
easily taint a disk attached to an HBA VF...


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