Message-ID: <20130717144849.GB16513@xanatos>
Date:	Wed, 17 Jul 2013 07:48:49 -0700
From:	Sarah Sharp <sarah.a.sharp@...ux.intel.com>
To:	CAI Qian <caiqian@...hat.com>
Cc:	Trond Myklebust <Trond.Myklebust@...app.com>,
	Ric Wheeler <ricwheeler@...il.com>, David Lang <david@...g.hm>,
	ksummit-2013-discuss@...ts.linuxfoundation.org,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart@...ux.intel.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
	Olivier Galibert <galibert@...ox.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	stable <stable@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Willy Tarreau <w@....eu>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 03:36:36AM -0400, CAI Qian wrote:
> > On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 19:31 -0400, Ric Wheeler wrote:
> > > On 07/16/2013 07:12 PM, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 06:54:59PM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> > > >> On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 15:43 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> > > > In order to make our community better, we need to figure out where the
> > > > baseline of "good" behavior is.  We need to define what behavior we want
> > > > from both maintainers and patch submitters.  E.g. "No regressions" and
> > > > "don't break userspace" and "no personal attacks".  That needs to be
> > > > written down somewhere, and it isn't.  If it's documented somewhere,
> > > > point me to the file in Documentation.  Hint: it's not there.
> > > >
> > > > That is the problem.
> > > >
> > > > Sarah Sharp
> > > 
> > > The problem you are pointing out - and it is a problem - makes us less
> > > effective
> > > as a community.
> > 
> > Not really. Most of the people who already work as part of this
> > community are completely used to it. We've created the environment, and
> > have no problems with it.
> > 
> > Where it could possibly be a problem is when it comes to recruiting
> > _new_ members to our community. Particularly so given that some
> > journalists take a special pleasure in reporting particularly juicy
> > comments and antics. That would tend to scare off a lot of gun-shy
> > newbies.
> >
> > On the other hand, it might tend to bias our recruitment toward people
> > of a more "special" disposition. Perhaps we finally need the services of
> > a social scientist to help us find out...
>
> Does that sound like there are not going to have enough direct/thick skin
> new kernel developers around to maintain the future Linux community? Maybe
> just need a better pipeline for people comfortable for this culture?

No, we don't need a better pipeline for people who can "put up with
shit".  We need a better pipeline for people who can work together
civilly, and still get shit done.

I'm working on getting a pipeline of women into kernel development,
through the FOSS Outreach Program for Women.  They slowly get introduced
to Linux development culture, starting with a very friendly separate
mailing list and IRC channel, and finally moving to work with a kernel
mentor on a bigger project on the main Linux kernel development lists.
We have seven women participating this round, and I suspect we'll have
even more the next round.

So deal with it.  You're going to have a lot more women in the kernel
community, and not all of them will be willing to put up with verbal
abuse.  If you want to attract top talent that also happen to be women
or racial minorities, the verbal abuse needs to stop.

Sarah Sharp
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