linux-kernel - Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML

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Date:	Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:04:36 -0700 (PDT)
From:	David Lang <david@...g.hm>
To:	Sarah Sharp <sarah.a.sharp@...ux.intel.com>
cc:	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
	CAI Qian <caiqian@...hat.com>,
	ksummit-2013-discuss@...ts.linuxfoundation.org,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart@...ux.intel.com>,
	Olivier Galibert <galibert@...ox.com>,
	stable <stable@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Willy Tarreau <w@....eu>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Sarah Sharp wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 11:09:31AM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
>> On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 07:48 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
>>
>>>> Does that sound like there are not going to have enough direct/thick skin
>>>> new kernel developers around to maintain the future Linux community? Maybe
>>>> just need a better pipeline for people comfortable for this culture?
>>>
>>> No, we don't need a better pipeline for people who can "put up with
>>> shit".  We need a better pipeline for people who can work together
>>> civilly, and still get shit done.
>>>
>>> I'm working on getting a pipeline of women into kernel development,
>>> through the FOSS Outreach Program for Women.  They slowly get introduced
>>> to Linux development culture, starting with a very friendly separate
>>> mailing list and IRC channel, and finally moving to work with a kernel
>>> mentor on a bigger project on the main Linux kernel development lists.
>>> We have seven women participating this round, and I suspect we'll have
>>> even more the next round.
>>>
>>> So deal with it.  You're going to have a lot more women in the kernel
>>> community, and not all of them will be willing to put up with verbal
>>> abuse.  If you want to attract top talent that also happen to be women
>>> or racial minorities, the verbal abuse needs to stop.
>>>
>>
>> I have to ask. How much verbal abuse have you received in LKML? And I
>> don't mean in this thread.
>
> I assume you also want me to exclude the verbal abuse and personal
> threats I've received via email and my blog because of this thread.
> But, just for reference, I'll post them here as well.

Not that I am in any way defending these posts, but does the behavior of 
outsiders like this in other forums really reflect the LKML attitude? Or does it 
reflect the fact that there are a lot of people out there who you really do not 
want to deal with (no matter what the topic)

Just about any topic that you take a firm stand on (anything other than pure 
status-quo), and your stand gets out to as many people as have heard about this 
thread, is going to generate a LOT of offensive and irrational hate messages. 
Linus talked about the ongoing abuse he receives earlier in the thread, so it's 
not just people attacking you.

David Lang
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