linux-kernel - Re: Maybe it's time to shut this thread down (Was: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review)

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Message-ID: <20130718155428.GB5440@xanatos>
Date:	Thu, 18 Jul 2013 08:54:28 -0700
From:	Sarah Sharp <sarah.a.sharp@...ux.intel.com>
To:	Theodore Ts'o <tytso@....edu>, CAI Qian <caiqian@...hat.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
	Guenter Roeck <linux@...ck-us.net>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Dave Jones <davej@...hat.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	stable <stable@...r.kernel.org>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart@...ux.intel.com>,
	ksummit-2013-discuss@...ts.linux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: Maybe it's time to shut this thread down (Was: Re: [ 00/19]
 3.10.1-stable review)

On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 09:30:08AM -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> The reason why I started the kernel summit over ten years ago
> was because there were certain topics that are much better discussed
> in person, and that over time, if we don't have sufficient face to
> face interactions, the quality of e-mail discussions can start to
> become frayed.
> 
> One of the reasons is that e-mail is just not as expressive a medium
> as face-to-face conversations.  As a result, when people feel that
> they aren't being heard, because they aren't getting those critical
> non-verbal cues, they start escalating.  They start using stronger
> words, such as F*CK.  They start doing exactly what they claim to
> abhor to their verbal opponents in the debate, which is describing
> their fellow kernel developers using demeaning terms.  They start
> using loaded, and over-reaching words, like "abuse", which ultimately
> ends up hurting their own case.
> 
> I suspect this is happening because it's easy when a body feels that
> their message of say, "could we please treat each other with more
> respect", isn't getting heard, it's very easy and very tempting to
> resort to "Linus is an AB-UUUUUUUU-SER!".

Let's shift this discussion away from the terms "abuse" and
"professionalism" to "respect" and "civility".  I agree that calling
Linus an abuser is not conducive to moving this conversation forward.  I
agree not to use f*ck in my emails anymore, and, as Ted suggests, we'll
see how polite requests get handled.

> May I make the polite suggestion (and we'll see how well polite
> requests get honored via e-mail), that we take this discussion
> off-line, and wait to try to discuss this in person at the Kernel
> Summit?

I concur.  Let's discuss this at KS.

Sarah Sharp
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