linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH] um: change defconfig to stop spawning xterm

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Message-ID: <CALkWK0=bAwDxbLEtHOThjY58BmWCrFYgZm9GaLfEnF5vpu1VJw@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:32:46 +0530
From:	Ramkumar Ramachandra <artagnon@...il.com>
To:	Al Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>
Cc:	LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Richard Weinberger <richard@....at>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] um: change defconfig to stop spawning xterm

Al Viro wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 03:15:14PM +0530, Ramkumar Ramachandra wrote:
>> Ramkumar Ramachandra wrote:
>> > [1]: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-July/012152.html
>>
>> ... and the patches were rejected.  Lennart says that UML providing
>> /dev/tty* is wrong, and that UML should call them /dev/hvc* (or
>> something).  Can we do something about the situation?  Can we remove
>> /dev/tty*, and provide /dev/hvc*?  Will we be breaking existing users?
>
> Yes, you would be breaking existing users.  Starting with anybody with static
> /dev.  Or a debian userland, for that matter.  Any systemd-free setup,
> actually.

Systemd does not support a static /dev, so we're talking about
non-systemd systems.  Ofcourse I reject anything that breaks existing
users.

> Changing device number assignments is not to be done lightly, whether
> they should've been set that way back then or not.

I never proposed something as ridiculous as changing device number
assignments.  I'm trying to add a HVC_DRIVER to um Linux: I enabled it
in the Kconfig; any idea how to get devtmpfs to populate /dev with
hvc* device nodes now?

> As for Lennart's opinion...  *shrug*  He's free to do whatever he wants
> in systemd.  It does not translate into having any kind of control over
> the kernel.

If you care about users, you will stop worrying about different
people's "opinions", "control", and work towards a solution.  I want
great user-experience, period.  You can continue to argue endlessly
about the sanity of Lennart/systemd for all I care, but you cannot
deny the fact that systemd has _users_.  Users that you must support.

So, what should we do?
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