linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH] x86: Run checksumming in parallel accross multiple alu's

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <20131018064321.GG14264@gmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 18 Oct 2013 08:43:21 +0200
From:	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>
To:	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>
Cc:	Neil Horman <nhorman@...driver.com>,
	Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@...il.com>,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, sebastien.dugue@...l.net,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>, x86@...nel.org,
	netdev@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] x86: Run checksumming in parallel accross multiple alu's

* H. Peter Anvin <hpa@...or.com> wrote:

> On 10/17/2013 01:41 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> > 
> > To correctly simulate the workload you'd have to:
> > 
> >  - allocate a buffer larger than your L2 cache.
> > 
> >  - to measure the effects of the prefetches you'd also have to randomize
> >    the individual buffer positions. See how 'perf bench numa' implements a
> >    random walk via --data_rand_walk, in tools/perf/bench/numa.c.
> >    Otherwise the CPU might learn your simplistic stream direction and the
> >    L2 cache might hw-prefetch your data, interfering with any explicit 
> >    prefetches the code does. In many real-life usecases packet buffers are
> >    scattered.
> > 
> > Also, it would be nice to see standard deviation noise numbers when two 
> > averages are close to each other, to be able to tell whether differences 
> > are statistically significant or not.
> 
> 
> Seriously, though, how much does it matter?  All the above seems likely 
> to do is to drown the signal by adding noise.

I think it matters a lot and I don't think it 'adds' noise - it measures 
something else (cache cold behavior - which is the common case for 
first-time csum_partial() use for network packets), which was not measured 
before, and that that is by its nature has different noise patterns.

I've done many cache-cold measurements myself and had no trouble achieving 
statistically significant results and high precision.

> If the parallel (threaded) checksumming is faster, which theory says it 
> should and microbenchmarking confirms, how important are the 
> macrobenchmarks?

Microbenchmarks can be totally blind to things like the ideal prefetch 
window size. (or whether a prefetch should be done at all: some CPUs will 
throw away prefetches if enough regular fetches arrive.)

Also, 'naive' single-threaded algorithms can occasionally be better in the 
cache-cold case because a linear, predictable stream of memory accesses 
might saturate the memory bus better than a somewhat random looking, 
interleaved web of accesses that might not harmonize with buffer depths.

I _think_ if correctly tuned then the parallel algorithm should be better 
in the cache cold case, I just don't know with what parameters (and the 
algorithm has at least one free parameter: the prefetch window size), and 
I don't know how significant the effect is.

Also, more fundamentally, I absolutely detest doing no measurements or 
measuring the wrong thing - IMHO there are too many 'blind' optimization 
commits in the kernel with little to no observational data attached.

Thanks,

	Ingo
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/