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Date:	Fri, 14 Feb 2014 12:27:48 -0500
From:	Austin S Hemmelgarn <>
To:	ChaosEsque Team <>,
	Borislav Petkov <>
Subject: Re: Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of
 them. Where's linus in all of this?

On 02/14/2014 11:10 AM, ChaosEsque Team wrote:
> I much prefer simpler forms over complex forms.
> SysV is that vs systemd.
> The systemd people have pushed hard for exclusive systemd in debian.
> And everywhere else for that matter.
> I really would like to have the option, forever, to continue using 
> sysv scripts, just like we've been doing since linux came into existance
> and since debian came into the world. I do not like how systemd
> works, I just don't want to use it. I don't like how it 
> takes over everything.
> I do like debian, it has always been about choice.
> But now the systemd people are taking that choice away.
> They are always threatening us that sysv scripts _will_
> "bit rot" away (they're wooden?, no they exist now and work
> fine, and will continue to work fine).
> I wish someone could weigh in and defang the systemd and pottering 
> people. They are steamrolling over all of us, they seem to take
> pleasure in the fact that we will have to relearn everything and on 
> their terms. It is domination of the mind.
> They also have zero respect for anyone else. Zero respect for 
> people that like the unix way. Zero respect for those older than them
> and Zero respect for those working in the field.
> Could linus perhaps atleast delegate udev away from pottering and friends?
> And maybe make a statement that linux is NOT systemd, there is no
> new "linux software stack" that pottering and friends keep insisting on.
> This situation is coming to a head. We need leadership against this
> landgrab of the systemd people.
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 2/14/14, Borislav Petkov <> wrote:
>  Subject: Re: Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the fans of them. Where's linus in all of this?
>  To: "ChaosEsque Team" <>
>  Cc:
>  Date: Friday, February 14, 2014, 6:27 AM
>  On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 05:19:01AM
>  -0800, ChaosEsque Team wrote:
>  > Honestly, f__k systemd and f__k lennart, and f__k the
>  fans of them.
>  > Where's linus in all of this?
>  > 
>  > The systemd fans ban anyone who say f__k-that to
>  systemd.
>  > 
>  > What can we do?
>  > Can we fork debian? (Why do we have to...)
>  > Why do 4 people get to decide to send thousands and
>  thousands of people into the systemd waters?
>  > This is not fair.
>  > 
>  > This is not-pro choice. And YES, linux, and especially
>  debian IS about choice.
>  I don't know if you're trolling for a useless discussion or
>  this is
>  really your opinion but if it were, I have to say that I
>  agree with you
>  about the choice aspect. I don't like that systemd-or-die
>  XOR-morality
>  either.
>  I'm sure systemd might have its merits and all but I think,
>  too, people
>  should have a choice on any distro.
>  Just my 2c.
>  -- 
>  Regards/Gruss,
>      Boris.
>  Sent from a fat crate under my desk. Formatting is fine.
>  --

I wholeheartedly second this, systemd is way too monolithic.  What ever
happened to the traditional *nix philosophy of writing a program that
did one thing, and did it really well.  If i wanted to be forced lack of
choice, I'd be using OS X or Windows, not Linux.  This is actually one
of the primary reasons I refuse to use Debian or Ubuntu anymore.  Even
worse, I've heard rumblings of plans to integrate D-Bus into systemd,
although that's likely to result in somebody forking D-Bus.

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