Date:	Thu, 9 Oct 2014 14:29:19 +0400
From:	Andrew Vagin <avagin@...allels.com>
To:	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>
CC:	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>,
	Andrey Vagin <avagin@...nvz.org>,
	Linux FS Devel <linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@...r.kernel.org>,
	Andrey Vagin <avagin@...il.com>,
	Alexander Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Cyrill Gorcunov <gorcunov@...nvz.org>,
	Pavel Emelyanov <xemul@...allels.com>,
	Serge Hallyn <serge.hallyn@...onical.com>,
	Rob Landley <rob@...dley.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] [RFC] mnt: add ability to clone mntns starting with the
 current root

On Wed, Oct 08, 2014 at 12:23:52PM -0700, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net> writes:
> 
> > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 4:08 AM, Andrew Vagin <avagin@...allels.com> wrote:
> >> On Tue, Oct 07, 2014 at 01:45:22PM -0700, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> >>> Andrey Vagin <avagin@...nvz.org> writes:
> >>>
> >>> > From: Andrey Vagin <avagin@...il.com>
> >>> >
> >>> > Currently when we create a new container with a separate root,
> >>> > we need to clone the current mount namespace with all mounts and then
> >>> > clean up it by using pivot_root(). A big part of mountpoints are cloned
> >>> > only to be umounted.
> >>>
> >>> Is the motivation performance?  Because if that is the motivation we
> >>> need numbers.
> >>
> >> The major motivation to create a clean mount namespace which contains
> >> only required mounts.
> >>
> >> Now you want to convince us that there is nothing wrong if we use
> >> userns, because all inherited mounts are locked. My point is that all
> >> useless mounts should be umounted.  If the current root isn't on rootfs,
> >> pivot_root() allows us to umount all useless points. But pivot_root()
> >> doesn't work, if the current root is on rootfs. How can we umount
> >> useless points in this case?
> 
> One of your justifications for a new system call was so you could do
> less.  Doing less to get to where you want to go is only justified when
> your doing less to get better performance.
> 
> >> Maybe we want to say that rootfs should not be used if we are going to
> >> create containers...
> 
> Today it is an assumption of the vfs that rootfs is mounted.  With
> rootfs mounted and pivot_root at the base of the mount stack you can
> make as minimal of a set of mounts as the vfs allows.

You have misunderstood me.
For most system /proc/self/mountinfo looks like this:
[root@...p-10-30-23-214 ~]# cat /proc/self/mountinfo 
17 22 0:3 / /proc rw,relatime - proc proc rw
18 22 0:0 / /sys rw,relatime - sysfs sysfs rw
19 22 0:5 / /dev rw,relatime - devtmpfs devtmpfs rw,size=502324k,nr_inodes=125581,mode=755
20 19 0:11 / /dev/pts rw,relatime - devpts devpts rw,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000
21 19 0:17 / /dev/shm rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime - tmpfs tmpfs rw
22 1 253:2 / / rw,relatime - ext4 /dev/vda2 rw,barrier=1,data=ordered
24 22 253:1 / /boot rw,relatime - ext3 /dev/vda1 rw,errors=continue,user_xattr,acl,barrier=1,data=ordered

/ isn't a rootfs mount here and pivot_root() works fine in this case. Here is
no problem for such system.

Now look at the second case:
hell@...roid:/ $ cat /proc/self/mountinfo
1 1 0:1 / / ro,relatime - rootfs rootfs ro
11 1 0:11 / /dev rw,nosuid,relatime - tmpfs tmpfs rw,mode=755
12 11 0:9 / /dev/pts rw,relatime - devpts devpts rw,mode=600
13 1 0:3 / /proc rw,relatime - proc proc rw
14 1 0:12 / /sys rw,relatime - sysfs sysfs rw

Now / is an rootfs mount. pivot_root() doesn't work in this case and we
need to do some tricks to get a minimal set of mounts.

Thanks,
Andrew

> 
> Removing rootfs from the vfs requires an audit of everything that
> manipulates mounts.  It is not remotely a local excercise.
> 
> One of the things that needs to be considered is that if you really want
> to audit mounts is the code that needs manipulates them needs to be
> audited every bit as much as the mounts themselves.
> 
> > Could we have an extra rootfs-like fs that is always completely empty,
> > doesn't allow any writes, and can sit at the bottom of container
> > namespace hierarchies?  If so, and if we add a new syscall that's like
> > pivot_root (or unshare) but prunes the hierarchy, then we could switch
> > to that rootfs then.
> 
> Or equally have something that guarantees that rootfs is empty and
> read-only at the time the normal root filesystem is mounted.  That is
> certainly a much more localized change if we want to go there.
> 
> I am half tempted to suggest that mount --move /some/path / be updated
> to make the old / just go away (perhaps to be replaced with a read-only
> empty rootfs).  That gets us into figuring out if we break userspace
> which is a big challenge.
> 
> Eric
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