Message-ID: <20150211042942.GA27931@mail.hallyn.com>
Date:	Wed, 11 Feb 2015 05:29:42 +0100
From:	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@...lyn.com>
To:	Tejun Heo <tj@...nel.org>
Cc:	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@...lyn.com>,
	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>,
	Richard Weinberger <richard@....at>,
	Linux API <linux-api@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux Containers <containers@...ts.linux-foundation.org>,
	Serge Hallyn <serge.hallyn@...ntu.com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>,
	cgroups mailinglist <cgroups@...r.kernel.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCHv3 8/8] cgroup: Add documentation for cgroup namespaces

Quoting Tejun Heo (tj@...nel.org):
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 04:46:16AM +0100, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> > 1. Hierarchy_num in /proc/cgroups and /proc/self/cgroup start at 0.  Used
> > to start with 1.  I expect many userspace parsers to be broken by this.
> 
> This is intentional.  The unified hierarchy will always have the
> hierarchy number zero.  Userland needs to be updated anyway and the
> unified hierarchy won't show up unless explicitly enabled.
> 
> > 2. After creating every non-leaf cgroup, we must fill in the
> > cgroup.subtree_cgroups file.  This is extra work which userspace
> > doesn't have to do right now.
> 
> Again, by design.  This is how organization and control are separated
> and the differing levels of granularity is achieved.
> 
> > 3. Let's say we want to create a freezer cgroup /foo/bar for some set of
> 
> There shouldn't be a "freezer" cgroup.  The processes are categorized
> according to their logical structure and controllers are applied to
> the hierarchy as necessary.

But there can well be cgroups for which only freezer is enabled.  If
I'm wrong about that, then I am suffering a fundamental misunderstanding.

> > tasks, which they will administer.  In fact let's assume we are going to
> > use cgroup namespaces.  We have to put the tasks into /foo/bar, unshare
> > the cgroup ns, then create /foo/bar/leaf, move the tasks into /foo/bar/leaf,
> > and then write 'freezer' into /foo/bar.  (If we're not using cgroup
> > namespaces, then we have to do a similar thing to let the tasks administer
> > /foo/bar while placing them under /foo/bar/leaf).  The oddness I'm pointing
> > to is where the tasks have to know that they can create cgroups in "..".
> > 
> > For containers this becomes odd.  We tend to group containers by the
> > tasks in and under a cgroup.  We now will have to assume a convention
> > where we know to check for tasks in and under "..", since by definition
> > pid 1's cgroup (in a container) cannot have children.
> 
> The semantics is that the parent enables distribution of its given
> type of resource by enabling the controller in its subtree_control.
> This scoping isn't necessary for freezer and I'm debating whether to
> enable controllers which don't need granularity control to be enabled
> unconditionally.  Right now, I'm leaning against it mostly for
> consistency.

Yeah, IIUC (i.e. freezer would always be enabled?) that would be
even-more-confusing.

> > 4. The per-cgroup "tasks" file not existing seems odd, although certainly
> > unexpected by much current software.
> 
> And, yes, everything is per-process for reasons described in
> unified-hierarchy.txt.
> 
> > So, if the unified hierarchy is going to not cause undue pain, existing
> > software really needs to start working now to use it.  It's going to be
> > a sizeable task for lxc.
> 
> Yes, this isn't gonna be a trivial conversion.  The usage model
> changes and so will a lot of controller knobs and behaviors.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> tejun
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