Date:	Sun, 15 Mar 2015 10:18:05 +0000
From:	David Drysdale <drysdale@...gle.com>
To:	Josh Triplett <josh@...htriplett.org>
Cc:	Thiago Macieira <thiago.macieira@...el.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>,
	Al Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@...omium.org>,
	Oleg Nesterov <oleg@...hat.com>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>, Rik van Riel <riel@...hat.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@...il.com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux FS Devel <linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org>,
	X86 ML <x86@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/6] CLONE_FD: Task exit notification via file descriptor

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 7:29 PM, Josh Triplett <josh@...htriplett.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:03:12PM -0700, Thiago Macieira wrote:
>> On Friday 13 March 2015 18:11:32 Thiago Macieira wrote:
>> > On Friday 13 March 2015 14:51:47 Andy Lutomirski wrote:
>> > > In any event, we should find out what FreeBSD does in response to
>> > > read(2) on the fd.
>> >
>> > I've just successfully installed FreeBSD and compiled qtbase (main package
>> > of Qt 5) on it.
>> >
>> > I'll test pdfork during the weekend and report its behaviour.
>>
>> Here are my findings about pdfork.
>>
>> Source: http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/kern/sys_procdesc.c?v=FREEBSD10
>> Qt adaptations: https://codereview.qt-project.org/108561
>>
>> Processes created with pdfork() are normal processes that still send SIGCHLD
>> to their parents. The only difference is that you get the extra file descriptor
>> that can be passed to the pdgetpid() system call and works on select()/poll().
>> Trying to read from that file descriptor will result in EOPNOTSUPP.
>
> OK, since read() doesn't work on a pdfork() file descriptor, we don't
> have to worry about compatibility with pdfork()'s read result.
>
> However, if the expectation is that pdfork()ed child processes still
> send SIGCHLD, then I don't see how we can be compatible there, nor do I
> think we want to; as you mention below, that breaks the ability to
> encapsulate management of the created process entirely within a library.

I didn't think that was the case -- my understanding was that pdfork()ed
children would not generate SIGCHLD (and that does seem to be the
case with a quick test program).

As an aside, I do think there are some aspects of FreeBSD's process
descriptors that aren't quite right yet, particularly their interaction with
waitpid(-1, ...) -- IIRC pdfork()ed children are visible to it, but I'd expect
them not to be (to allow libraries to use sub-processes invisibly to the
programs using them). There's a thread at:
https://lists.cam.ac.uk/pipermail/cl-capsicum-discuss/2014-March/thread.html
but I'm not sure that anything came of that discussion.

As it happens, I'm meeting Robert Watson (one of the progenitors
of Capsicum/process descriptors) tomorrow, so I'll chase further.

>> Since they've never implemented pdwait4() (it's not even declared in the
>> headers), the only way to reap a child if you only have the file descriptor is
>> to first pdgetpid() and then call wait4() or wait6().
>
> Which suggests that we shouldn't try to implement pdwait4() in glibc
> until FreeBSD implements it in their kernel, since we won't know the
> exact semantics they expect.

By the way, I should point out one part of the FreeBSD design
which might help explain some of the semantics.

Process descriptors are particularly designed to be used with
Capsicum, which is a security framework where file descriptors
get extra rights associated with them, and the kernel polices
the use of those rights (e.g. you need CAP_READ for read(2)
operations; normal file descriptors implicitly have all of the
rights for back-compatibility).
  https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=capsicum&sektion=4

Capsicum also includes 'capability mode', where system calls
that access global namespaces are disabled -- including the
pid namespace.

So process descriptors are the only way to manipulate child
processes when a program is in capability mode -- and this
means that pdkill() is then genuinely needed over and above
kill(pdgetpid(),...).

>> If you don't pass PD_DAEMON, the child process gets killed with SIGKILL when
>> the file closes.
>
> OK, that makes sense.  We could certainly implement a
> CLONE_FD_KILL_ON_CLOSE flag with those semantics, if we want one in the
> future.
>
>> Conclusion:
>> Pros: this is the bare minimum that we'd need to disentangle the SIGCHLD mess.
>> As long as all child process activations use this feature, the problem is
>> solved.
>>
>> Cons: it requires cooperation from all child starters. If some other library
>> or the application installs a global SIGCHLD handler that waits on all child
>> processes, like libvlc used to do and Glib and Ecore still do, you won't be
>> able to get the child exit status.
>>
>> I have not tested what happens if you try to pass the file descriptor to other
>> processes (can you even do that on FreeBSD?). But even if you could and got
>> notifications, you couldn't wait on the child to get its exit status -- unless
>> they implement pdwait4.
>
> Even if they do implement pdwait4, they might not bypass the "must be
> the parent process" restriction.  Let's wait to see what semantics they
> go with.

Hmm, interesting point.  FreeBSD certainly allows FD passing, but
I'm not sure what the interactions are when it's a process descriptor
that's passed.

Given the object-capability background to Capsicum, I'd assume that a
holder of the process descriptor should be able to do whatever operations
are allowed by the rights associated with the descriptor (CAP_PDGETPID,
CAP_PDKILL and CAP_PDWAIT exist as specific rights allowing those
operations, and a non-restricted descriptor will have all of them by default).

But I'll add some test cases for this to the Capsicum test suite to check
whether theory matches practice...
  https://github.com/google/capsicum-test/blob/dev/procdesc.cc

>>  - pdfork: can be emulated with clone4 + CLONE_FD (+ CLONEFD_KILL_ON_CLOSE)
>>  - pdwait4: can be emulated with read()
>>  - pdgetpid: needs an ioctl
>>  - pdkill: needs an ioctl [or just write()]
>
> I think that should be a dedicated syscall, not an ioctl.
>
> It's unfortunate that rt_sigqueueinfo doesn't take a flags argument.
> However, I just realized that it takes a 32-bit "int" for the signal
> number, yet signal numbers fit in 8 bits.  So we could just add flags in
> the high 24 bits of that argument, and in particular add a flag
> indicating that the first argument is a file descriptor rather than a
> PID.
>
> - Josh Triplett
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Powered by blists - more mailing lists