Date:	Tue, 19 May 2015 19:10:07 -0700
From:	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>
To:	Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
Cc:	"Luis R. Rodriguez" <mcgrof@...e.com>,
	Matthew Garrett <mjg59@...f.ucam.org>,
	Rusty Russell <rusty@...tcorp.com.au>,
	Casey Schaufler <casey@...aufler-ca.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
	linux-security-module <linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org>,
	James Morris <james.l.morris@...cle.com>,
	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@...lyn.com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	linux-wireless <linux-wireless@...r.kernel.org>,
	David Howells <dhowells@...hat.com>,
	Kyle McMartin <kyle@...nel.org>,
	David Woodhouse <david.woodhouse@...el.com>,
	Seth Forshee <seth.forshee@...onical.com>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Joey Lee <jlee@...e.de>,
	Konstantin Ryabitsev <mricon@...nel.org>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@...omium.org>
Subject: Re: [RFD] linux-firmware key arrangement for firmware signing

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2015-05-19 at 18:29 -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
>> On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
>> > On Tue, 2015-05-19 at 17:22 -0700, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
>> >> On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
>> >> > On Wed, 2015-05-20 at 00:19 +0200, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
>> >> >> On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 05:48:37PM -0400, Mimi Zohar wrote:
>> >> >> > On Tue, 2015-05-19 at 22:02 +0200, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
>> >
>> >> > In this case, not only is there a
>> >> > security hook, but the IMA hook exists as well.  To appraise firmware,
>> >> > add a line to the IMA policy containing "appraise func=FIRMWARE_CHECK".
>> >> > Similarly, to add a measurement to the measurement list, add a line to
>> >> > the IMA policy containing "measure func=FIRMWAE_CHECK".
>> >>
>> >> I have a series of reasons find IMA unsuitable for the current goals at hand:
>> >>
>> >>   1) IMA is a pretty big kitchen sink, we want this to work well for
>> >> even embedded systems, or architectures that do not have or require
>> >> TPMs
>> >
>> > There are different aspects to IMA.  One aspect is collecting file
>> > measurements and extending the TPM with those measurements.  The other
>> > aspect is appraising file integrity.  For that aspect, IMA-appraisal
>> > does not use a TPM.
>> >
>> >>   2) The appraisal is also done for to account for a specific state of
>> >> affairs, you appraise to the user of the integrity of the system at a
>> >> specific point in time,
>> >
>> > True, IMA can be used to attest to the integrity of a system.
>> >
>> >>  firmware signing can provide integrity /
>> >> authorship vetting of files directly from the authors.
>> >
>> > It can also be used to appraise the integrity of a file, be it an
>> > executable, a kernel module, configuration file or firmware in a
>> > consistent manor, based on a file hash or signature.
>> >
>> >> In the case of
>> >> regulatory.bin that was the whole point of it, and firmware signing as
>> >> is being provided is intended to generalize that but by sharing code
>> >> in-kernel with module signing infrastructure
>> >
>> > The underlying code used to verify the file signatures is the same.
>> > The difference being where/how the file signatures are stored and which
>> > keys to trust.
>> >
>> >> I am in hopes some others might be able to chime in more on point 2) here.
>> >>
>> >> Don't get me wrong IMA is nice, but its a big chunky requirement to
>> >> have, more than what module signing provides and what it requires
>> >> today to replace subsystem file signing requirements.
>> >
>> >> Now, LSM hooks -- that's more aligned with something we can start IMHO
>> >> reasonably arguing we should shift module signing code to be punted
>> >> into. But I've heard stories of LSM having issues with some virtual
>> >> environments, and LSM stacking is also pretty new, and IMHO that'd be
>> >> one way to compartmentalize all this module signing code. IMHO that
>> >> *should happen* but can only be taken seriously once LSM stacking is
>> >> merged in and baked. Its not, but I'm excited for it.
>> >
>> > Have you even looked at IMA-appraisal?
>>
>> I just looked extremely briefly.  It seems to be much simpler than the
>> PKCS#7 thing.  OTOH, it seems to hardcode some rather scary
>> assumptions that it's using RSA in digsig_asymmetric.c, specifically:
>>
>>         pks.rsa.s = mpi_read_raw_data(hdr->sig, siglen);
>> This bit in ima_appraise_measurement ignores trailing junk.  Why?
>
> The same field is used to store either an MD5 or a SHA1 hash.  The hash
> length is dependent on the hash algorithm

I still don't understand why there would be trailing junk.  Surely the
stored hash length should match the computed hash length, no?

>
>>                 if (xattr_len - sizeof(xattr_value->type) - hash_start >=
>>                                 iint->ima_hash->length)
>>                         /* xattr length may be longer. md5 hash in previous
>>                            version occupied 20 bytes in xattr, instead of 16
>>                          */
>>                         rc = memcmp(&xattr_value->digest[hash_start],
>>                                     iint->ima_hash->digest,
>>                                     iint->ima_hash->length);
>>
>> I got confused around here:
>>
>>                         /* Replace RSA with HMAC if not mounted readonly and
>>                          * not immutable
>>                          */
>>                         if (!IS_RDONLY(dentry->d_inode) &&
>>                             !IS_IMMUTABLE(dentry->d_inode))
>>                                 evm_update_evmxattr(dentry, xattr_name,
>>                                                     xattr_value,
>>                                                     xattr_value_len);
>>
>> Huh?
>
> EVM signatures are replaced with a keyed HMAC.
>
>>
>> Anyway, AFAICT IMA is about tracking the integrity of an FS that's
>> being actively modified, not about distributing signed things.
>
> Files that are signed are considered immutable and do not change
> (ima_appraise_measurement: case EVM_IMA_XATTR_DIGSIG).
>
> Fin posted RPM patches to store file signatures in the RPM header.
> Similarly, I posted patches to include file signatures in deb packages.
> (We still need to upstream these patches.)

I'm at a loss as to how this would work or how it would make sense for
what Luis is trying to do.

>
>>  Also,
>> I couldn't spot what part of IMA detects an attacker replacing one
>> signed file with a different one from the same filesystem but a
>> different name.
>
> Perhaps you're referring to EVM?

I don't know.  I also couldn't figure out what IMA was and what EVM was.

--Andy
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