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Date:   Mon, 13 Feb 2017 17:57:42 +0530
From:   Vinod Koul <>
To:     Ulf Hansson <>
Cc:     Marek Szyprowski <>,
        "Rafael J. Wysocki" <>,
        linux-samsung-soc <>,,
        "" <>,
        "" <>,
        Krzysztof Kozlowski <>,
        Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz <>,
        Lars-Peter Clausen <>,
        Arnd Bergmann <>, Inki Dae <>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v8 3/3] dmaengine: pl330: Don't require irq-safe runtime

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 12:11:54PM +0100, Ulf Hansson wrote:
> >>
> >> If we could set up the device link already at device initialization,
> >> it should also be possible to avoid getting -EPROBE_DEFER for dma
> >> client drivers when requesting their dma channels.
> >
> > Well if we defer then driver will regiser with dmaengine after it is
> > probed, so a client will either get a channel or not. IOW we won't get
> I didn't quite get this. What do you mean by "if we defer..."?
> Defer into *what* and defer of *what*?  Could you please elaborate.

Nevermind I think below is much interesting now..

> >> Again, allow me to fill in. This issue exists for all ARM SoC which
> >> has a dma controller residing in a PM domain. I think that is quite
> >> many.
> >>
> >> Currently the only solution I have seen for this problem, but which I
> >> really dislike. That is, each dma client driver requests/releases
> >> their dma channel from their respective ->runtime_suspend|resume()
> >> callbacks - then the dma driver can use the dma request/release hooks,
> >> to do pm_runtime_get|put() which then becomes non-irq-safe.
> >
> > Yeah that is not the best way to do. But looking at it current one doesnt
> > seem best fit either.
> >
> > So on seeing the device_link_add() I was thinking that this is some SoC
> > dependent problem being solved whereas the problem statmement is non-atomic
> > channel prepare.
> You may be right.
> Although, I don't know of other examples, besides the runtime PM use
> case, where non-atomic channel prepare/unprepare would make sense. Do
> you?

The primary ask for that has been to enable runtime_pm for drivers. It's not
a new ask, but we somehow haven't gotten around to do it.

> > As I said earlier, if we want to solve that problem a better idea is to
> > actually split the prepare as we discussed in [1]
> >
> > This way we can get a non atomic descriptor allocate/prepare and release.
> > Yes we need to redesign the APIs to solve this, but if you guys are up for
> > it, I think we can do it and avoid any further round abouts :)
> Adding/re-designing dma APIs is a viable option to solve the runtime PM case.
> Changes would be needed for all related dma client drivers as well,
> although if that's what we need to do - let's do it.

Yes, but do bear in mind that some cases do need atomic prepare. The primary
cases for DMA had that in mind and also submitting next transaction from the
callback (tasklet) context, so that won't go away.

It would help in other cases where clients know that they will not be in
atomic context so we provide additional non-atomic "allocation" followed by
prepare, so that drivers can split the work among these and people can do
runtime_pm and other things..

> >> So besides solving the irq-safe issue for dma driver, using the
> >> device-links has additionally two advantages. I already mentioned the
> >> -EPROBE_DEFER issue above.
> >>
> >> The second thing, is the runtime/system PM relations we get for free by
> >> using the links. In other words, the dma driver/core don't need to care
> >> about dealing with pm_runtime_get|put() as that would be managed by the
> >> dma client driver.
> >
> > Yeah sorry took me a while to figure that out :), If we do a different
> > API then dmaengine core can call pm_runtime_get|put() from non-atomic
> > context.
> Yes, it can and this works from runtime PM point of view. But the
> following issues would remain unsolved.
> 1) Dependencies between dma drivers and dma client drivers during system
> PM. For example, a dma client driver needs the dma controller to be
> operational (remain system resumed), until the dma client driver itself
> becomes system suspended.
> The *only* currently available solution for this, is to try to system
> suspend the dma controller later than the dma client, via using the *late
> or the *noirq system PM callbacks. This works for most cases, but it
> becomes a problem when the dma client also needs to be system suspended at
> the *late or the *noirq phase. Clearly this solution that doesn't scale.
> Using device links explicitly solves this problem as it allows to specify
> this dependency between devices.

Yes this is an interesting point. Yes till now people have been doing above
to workaround this problem, but hey this is not a unique to dmaengine. Any
subsystem which provides services to others has this issue, so the solution
much be driver or pm framework and not unique to dmaengine.

> 2) We won't avoid dma clients from getting -EPROBE_DEFER when requesting
> their dma channels in their ->probe() routines. This would be possible, if
> we can set up the device links at device initialization.

Well setting those links is not practical at initialization time. Most
modern dma controllers feature a SW mux, with multiple clients connecting
and requesting, would we link all of them? Most of times dmaengine driver
wont know about those..


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