linux-kernel - Re: [PATCHv1, RFC 0/8] Boot-time switching between 4- and 5-level paging

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite for Android: free password hash cracker in your pocket

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <20170526041853.GA27213@la.guarana.org>
Date:   Fri, 26 May 2017 00:18:53 -0400
From:   Kevin Easton <kevin@...rana.org>
To:     Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>
Cc:     Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
        "Kirill A. Shutemov" <kirill.shutemov@...ux.intel.com>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        the arch/x86 maintainers <x86@...nel.org>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>,
        "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>, Andi Kleen <ak@...ux.intel.com>,
        Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@...el.com>,
        "linux-arch@...r.kernel.org" <linux-arch@...r.kernel.org>,
        linux-mm <linux-mm@...ck.org>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCHv1, RFC 0/8] Boot-time switching between 4- and 5-level
 paging

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 05:40:16PM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Linus Torvalds
> <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org> wrote:
> > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Kirill A. Shutemov
> > <kirill.shutemov@...ux.intel.com> wrote:
> >> Here' my first attempt to bring boot-time between 4- and 5-level paging.
> >> It looks not too terrible to me. I've expected it to be worse.
> >
> > If I read this right, you just made it a global on/off thing.
> >
> > May I suggest possibly a different model entirely? Can you make it a
> > per-mm flag instead?
> >
> > And then we
> >
> >  (a) make all kthreads use the 4-level page tables
> >
> >  (b) which means that all the init code uses the 4-level page tables
> >
> >  (c) which means that all those checks for "start_secondary" etc can
> > just go away, because those all run with 4-level page tables.
> >
> > Or is it just much too expensive to switch between 4-level and 5-level
> > paging at run-time?
> >
> 
> Even ignoring expensiveness, I'm not convinced it's practical.  AFAICT
> you can't atomically switch the paging mode and CR3, so either you
> need some magic page table with trampoline that works in both modes
> (which is presumably doable with some trickery) or you need to flip
> paging off.  Good luck if an NMI hits in the mean time.  There was
> code like that once upon a time for EFI mixed mode, but it got deleted
> due to triple-faults.

According to Intel's documentation you pretty much have to disable
paging anyway:

"The processor allows software to modify CR4.LA57 only outside of IA-32e
mode. In IA-32e mode, an attempt to modify CR4.LA57 using the MOV CR
instruction causes a general-protection exception (#GP)."

(If it weren't for that, maybe you could point the last entry in the PML4
at the PML4 itself, so it also works as a PML5 for accessing kernel
addresses? And of course make sure nothing gets loaded above 
0xffffff8000000000).

    - Kevin