linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH -mm -v4 3/5] mm, swap: VMA based swap readahead

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Message-ID: <20170915034209.GA9690@bbox>
Date:   Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:42:09 +0900
From:   Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org>
To:     "Huang, Ying" <ying.huang@...el.com>
Cc:     Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, linux-mm@...ck.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org>,
        Rik van Riel <riel@...hat.com>, Shaohua Li <shli@...nel.org>,
        Hugh Dickins <hughd@...gle.com>,
        Fengguang Wu <fengguang.wu@...el.com>,
        Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@...el.com>,
        Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@...el.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH -mm -v4 3/5] mm, swap: VMA based swap readahead

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 11:15:08AM +0800, Huang, Ying wrote:
> Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org> writes:
> 
> > On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 08:01:30PM +0800, Huang, Ying wrote:
> >> Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org> writes:
> >> 
> >> > On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 02:02:29PM -0700, Andrew Morton wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:40:19 +0900 Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org> wrote:
> >> >> 
> >> >> > Every zram users like low-end android device has used 0 page-cluster
> >> >> > to disable swap readahead because it has no seek cost and works as
> >> >> > synchronous IO operation so if we do readahead multiple pages,
> >> >> > swap falut latency would be (4K * readahead window size). IOW,
> >> >> > readahead is meaningful only if it doesn't bother faulted page's
> >> >> > latency.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > However, this patch introduces additional knob /sys/kernel/mm/swap/
> >> >> > vma_ra_max_order as well as page-cluster. It means existing users
> >> >> > has used disabled swap readahead doesn't work until they should be
> >> >> > aware of new knob and modification of their script/code to disable
> >> >> > vma_ra_max_order as well as page-cluster.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > I say it's a *regression* and wanted to fix it but Huang's opinion
> >> >> > is that it's not a functional regression so userspace should be fixed
> >> >> > by themselves.
> >> >> > Please look into detail of discussion in
> >> >> > http://lkml.kernel.org/r/%3C1505183833-4739-4-git-send-email-minchan@kernel.org%3E
> >> >> 
> >> >> hm, tricky problem.  I do agree that linking the physical and virtual
> >> >> readahead schemes in the proposed fashion is unfortunate.  I also agree
> >> >> that breaking existing setups (a bit) is also unfortunate.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Would it help if, when page-cluster is written to zero, we do
> >> >> 
> >> >> printk_once("physical readahead disabled, virtual readahead still
> >> >> enabled.  Disable virtual readhead via
> >> >> /sys/kernel/mm/swap/vma_ra_max_order").
> >> >> 
> >> >> Or something like that.  It's pretty lame, but it should help alert the
> >> >> zram-readahead-disabling people to the issue?
> >> >
> >> > It was my last resort. If we cannot find other ways after all, yes, it would
> >> > be a minimum we should do. But it still breaks users don't/can't read/modify
> >> > alert and program.
> >> >
> >> > How about this?
> >> >
> >> > Can't we make vma-based readahead config option?
> >> > With that, users who no interest on readahead don't enable vma-based
> >> > readahead. In this case, page-cluster works as expected "disable readahead
> >> > completely" so it doesn't break anything.
> >> 
> >> Now.  Users can choose between VMA based readahead and original
> >> readahead via a knob as follow at runtime,
> >> 
> >> /sys/kernel/mm/swap/vma_ra_enabled
> >
> > It's not a config option and is enabled by default. IOW, it's under the radar
> > so current users cannot notice it. That's why we want to emit big fat warnning.
> > when old user set 0 to page-cluster. However, as Andrew said, it's lame.
> >
> > If we make it config option, product maker/kernel upgrade user can have
> > a chance to notice and read description so they could be aware of two weird
> > knobs and help to solve the problem in advance without printk_once warn.
> > If user has no interest about swap-readahead or skip the new config option
> > by mistake, it works physcial readahead which means no regression.
> 
> I am OK to make it config option.  But I think VMA based swap readahead
> should be enabled by default.  Because per my understanding, default
> option should be set for most common desktop users.  And VMA based swap
> readahead should benefit them.  People needs to turn off swap readahead
> is some special users, the original swap readahead default configuration
> isn't for them too.

Okay. I don't care either one is default if it is a config option.
It still gives a chance to notice a new algorithm so users can decide it
It is absolutely better than silent regressoin and printk tric.
Please add more description about those parallel two readahead algorithms
in somewhere(e.g., vm.txt) so he can understand the situation exactly and
can handle both tunable knobs at the same time.