linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH -mm -v4 3/5] mm, swap: VMA based swap readahead

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Message-ID: <87tw04in60.fsf@yhuang-dev.intel.com>
Date:   Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:46:47 +0800
From:   "Huang\, Ying" <ying.huang@...el.com>
To:     Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org>
Cc:     "Huang\, Ying" <ying.huang@...el.com>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        <linux-mm@...ck.org>, <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org>,
        "Rik van Riel" <riel@...hat.com>, Shaohua Li <shli@...nel.org>,
        Hugh Dickins <hughd@...gle.com>,
        Fengguang Wu <fengguang.wu@...el.com>,
        Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@...el.com>,
        Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@...el.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH -mm -v4 3/5] mm, swap: VMA based swap readahead

Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org> writes:

> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 11:15:08AM +0800, Huang, Ying wrote:
>> Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org> writes:
>> 
>> > On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 08:01:30PM +0800, Huang, Ying wrote:
>> >> Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org> writes:
>> >> 
>> >> > On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 02:02:29PM -0700, Andrew Morton wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:40:19 +0900 Minchan Kim <minchan@...nel.org> wrote:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> > Every zram users like low-end android device has used 0 page-cluster
>> >> >> > to disable swap readahead because it has no seek cost and works as
>> >> >> > synchronous IO operation so if we do readahead multiple pages,
>> >> >> > swap falut latency would be (4K * readahead window size). IOW,
>> >> >> > readahead is meaningful only if it doesn't bother faulted page's
>> >> >> > latency.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > However, this patch introduces additional knob /sys/kernel/mm/swap/
>> >> >> > vma_ra_max_order as well as page-cluster. It means existing users
>> >> >> > has used disabled swap readahead doesn't work until they should be
>> >> >> > aware of new knob and modification of their script/code to disable
>> >> >> > vma_ra_max_order as well as page-cluster.
>> >> >> > 
>> >> >> > I say it's a *regression* and wanted to fix it but Huang's opinion
>> >> >> > is that it's not a functional regression so userspace should be fixed
>> >> >> > by themselves.
>> >> >> > Please look into detail of discussion in
>> >> >> > http://lkml.kernel.org/r/%3C1505183833-4739-4-git-send-email-minchan@kernel.org%3E
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> hm, tricky problem.  I do agree that linking the physical and virtual
>> >> >> readahead schemes in the proposed fashion is unfortunate.  I also agree
>> >> >> that breaking existing setups (a bit) is also unfortunate.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Would it help if, when page-cluster is written to zero, we do
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> printk_once("physical readahead disabled, virtual readahead still
>> >> >> enabled.  Disable virtual readhead via
>> >> >> /sys/kernel/mm/swap/vma_ra_max_order").
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Or something like that.  It's pretty lame, but it should help alert the
>> >> >> zram-readahead-disabling people to the issue?
>> >> >
>> >> > It was my last resort. If we cannot find other ways after all, yes, it would
>> >> > be a minimum we should do. But it still breaks users don't/can't read/modify
>> >> > alert and program.
>> >> >
>> >> > How about this?
>> >> >
>> >> > Can't we make vma-based readahead config option?
>> >> > With that, users who no interest on readahead don't enable vma-based
>> >> > readahead. In this case, page-cluster works as expected "disable readahead
>> >> > completely" so it doesn't break anything.
>> >> 
>> >> Now.  Users can choose between VMA based readahead and original
>> >> readahead via a knob as follow at runtime,
>> >> 
>> >> /sys/kernel/mm/swap/vma_ra_enabled
>> >
>> > It's not a config option and is enabled by default. IOW, it's under the radar
>> > so current users cannot notice it. That's why we want to emit big fat warnning.
>> > when old user set 0 to page-cluster. However, as Andrew said, it's lame.
>> >
>> > If we make it config option, product maker/kernel upgrade user can have
>> > a chance to notice and read description so they could be aware of two weird
>> > knobs and help to solve the problem in advance without printk_once warn.
>> > If user has no interest about swap-readahead or skip the new config option
>> > by mistake, it works physcial readahead which means no regression.
>> 
>> I am OK to make it config option.  But I think VMA based swap readahead
>> should be enabled by default.  Because per my understanding, default
>> option should be set for most common desktop users.  And VMA based swap
>> readahead should benefit them.  People needs to turn off swap readahead
>> is some special users, the original swap readahead default configuration
>> isn't for them too.
>
> Okay. I don't care either one is default if it is a config option.
> It still gives a chance to notice a new algorithm so users can decide it
> It is absolutely better than silent regressoin and printk tric.
> Please add more description about those parallel two readahead algorithms
> in somewhere(e.g., vm.txt) so he can understand the situation exactly and
> can handle both tunable knobs at the same time.

Sure.

Best Regards,
Huang, Ying