linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH 0/7] IBRS patch series

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:   Fri, 05 Jan 2018 16:37:30 +0000
From:   David Woodhouse <dwmw2@...radead.org>
To:     Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@...hat.com>
Cc:     "Van De Ven, Arjan" <arjan.van.de.ven@...el.com>,
        Paul Turner <pjt@...gle.com>,
        Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@...ux.intel.com>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
        Greg KH <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
        "Hansen, Dave" <dave.hansen@...el.com>,
        Andi Kleen <ak@...ux.intel.com>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/7] IBRS patch series

On Fri, 2018-01-05 at 17:05 +0100, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 05, 2018 at 03:38:24PM +0000, David Woodhouse wrote:
> > 
> > We had IBRS first, and especially on Broadwell and earlier, its
> > performance really is painful.
> > 
> > Then came retpoline, purely as an optimisation. A very *important*
> > performance improvement, but an optimisation nonetheless.
> > 
> > When looking at optimisations, it is rare for us to say "oh, well it
> > opens up only a *small* theoretical security hole, but it's faster so
> > that's OK".
> I couldn't express any better than the above, the way I look at
> repotlines.
> 
> Now seeing how this thing escalates with 2-way gcc code emission with
> amd version that will not have ibrs at all to call it around the bios
> etc... and IBRS skylake is still needed as a 3-way alternative and no
> code exists to even patch it all at boot like that, and then qemu has
> to be compiled with reptoline and 2-way alternative there too, to
> achieve ibrs 2 ibpb 1, it's not looking like the way to go to me.
> 
> Not in the short term at least, and for the long term "reptoline" is
> guaranteed a totally useless effort.
> 
> reptoline is like highmem kmap() etc... eventually nobody will ever
> use reptoline. reptoline is more interesting for downstream in fact if
> something where at least we won't have to deal with that forever where
> there's more control on the toolchain used, and after a certain number
> of years that code expires.
> 
> I can imagine we'll unfortunately have to deal with reptoline at some
> point, but starting with reptoline at least looks backwards,
> especially if it's the long term you're planning for.

You are completely ignoring pre-Skylake here.

On pre-Skylake, retpoline is perfectly sufficient and it's a *lot*
faster than the IBRS option which is almost prohibitively slow.

We didn't do it just for fun. And it's working fine; it isn't *that*
complex.

Download attachment "smime.p7s" of type "application/x-pkcs7-signature" (5213 bytes)