Message-ID: <CAL_Jsq+HsHPLM2dPTxw3tCNjp7iGQ=2CiHkh4vkiZZ8wznOTgg@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Thu, 5 Apr 2018 16:27:13 -0500
From:   Rob Herring <robh@...nel.org>
To:     Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@...asonboard.com>
Cc:     Vladimir Zapolskiy <vladimir_zapolskiy@...tor.com>,
        jacopo mondi <jacopo@...ndi.org>,
        Sergei Shtylyov <sergei.shtylyov@...entembedded.com>,
        Andrzej Hajda <a.hajda@...sung.com>,
        Jacopo Mondi <jacopo+renesas@...ndi.org>,
        Archit Taneja <architt@...eaurora.org>,
        David Airlie <airlied@...ux.ie>,
        Simon Horman <horms@...ge.net.au>,
        Magnus Damm <magnus.damm@...il.com>,
        Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@...ux-m68k.org>,
        Niklas Söderlund <niklas.soderlund@...natech.se>,
        Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@....com>,
        dri-devel <dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org>,
        "open list:MEDIA DRIVERS FOR RENESAS - FCP" 
        <linux-renesas-soc@...r.kernel.org>, devicetree@...r.kernel.org,
        "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v6 1/3] dt-bindings: display: bridge: Document
 THC63LVD1024 LVDS decoder

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 1:53 PM, Laurent Pinchart
<laurent.pinchart@...asonboard.com> wrote:
> Hi Rob,
>
> On Thursday, 5 April 2018 19:33:33 EEST Rob Herring wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:36 AM, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, 27 March 2018 14:03:25 EEST Vladimir Zapolskiy wrote:
>> >> On 03/27/2018 01:10 PM, jacopo mondi wrote:
>> >>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 12:37:31PM +0300, Vladimir Zapolskiy wrote:
>> >>>> On 03/27/2018 11:57 AM, jacopo mondi wrote:
>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 11:30:29AM +0300, Vladimir Zapolskiy wrote:
>> >>>>>> On 03/27/2018 11:27 AM, Sergei Shtylyov wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On 3/27/2018 10:33 AM, jacopo mondi wrote:
>> >>>>>>> [...]
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Document Thine THC63LVD1024 LVDS decoder device tree
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> bindings.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Jacopo Mondi <jacopo+renesas@...ndi.org>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Reviewed-by: Andrzej Hajda <a.hajda@...sung.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Reviewed-by: Niklas Söderlund
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <niklas.soderlund+renesas@...natech.se>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>   .../bindings/display/bridge/thine,thc63lvd1024.txt | 66 +++
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>   1 file changed, 66 insertions(+)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>   create mode 100644
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation/devicetree/bindings/display/bridge/thine,thc63l
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> vd1024.txt
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/display/bridge/thine,thc6
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3lvd1024.txt
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/display/bridge/thine,thc6
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3lvd1024.txt
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> new file mode 100644
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> index 0000000..8225c6a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- /dev/null
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +++
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/display/bridge/thine,thc6
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3lvd1024.txt
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +Thine Electronics THC63LVD1024 LVDS decoder
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +-------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +The THC63LVD1024 is a dual link LVDS receiver designed to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> convert LVDS streams
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +to parallel data outputs. The chip supports single/dual
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> input/output modes,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +handling up to two two input LVDS stream and up to two
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> digital CMOS/TTL outputs.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +Single or dual operation modes, output data mapping and DDR
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> output modes are
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +configured through input signals and the chip does not
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> expose any control bus.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +Required properties:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +- compatible: Shall be "thine,thc63lvd1024"
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +Optional properties:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +- vcc-supply: Power supply for TTL output and digital
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> circuitry
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +- cvcc-supply: Power supply for TTL CLOCKOUT signal
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +- lvcc-supply: Power supply for LVDS inputs
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +- pvcc-supply: Power supply for PLL circuitry
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As explained in a comment to one of the previous versions of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> this series, I'm tempted to make vcc-supply mandatory and drop
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the three other power supplies for now, as I believe there's
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> very little chance they will be connected to separately
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> controllable regulators (all supplies use the same voltage). In
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the very unlikely event that this occurs in design we need to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> support in the future, the cvcc, lvcc and pvcc supplies can be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> added later as optional without breaking backward
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> compatibility.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm okay with that.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Apart from that,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Reviewed-by: Laurent Pinchart
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <laurent.pinchart@...asonboard.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +- pdwn-gpios: Power down GPIO signal. Active low
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> powerdown-gpios is the semi-standard name.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> right, I've also noticed it. If possible please avoid
>> >>>>>>>>>> shortenings in property names.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> It is not shortening, it just follow pin name from decoder's
>> >>>>>>>>> datasheet.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +- oe-gpios: Output enable GPIO signal. Active high
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> And this one is also a not ever met property name, please
>> >>>>>>>>>> consider to rename it to 'enable-gpios', for instance display
>> >>>>>>>>>> panels define it.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Again, it follows datasheet naming scheme. Has something changed
>> >>>>>>>>> in DT conventions?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Seconded. My understanding is that the property name should
>> >>>>>>>> reflect what reported in the the chip manual. For THC63LVD1024 the
>> >>>>>>>> enable and power down pins are named 'OE' and 'PDWN' respectively.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> But don't we need the vendor prefix in the prop names then, like
>> >>>>>>> "renesas,oe-gpios" then?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Seconded, with a correction to "thine,oe-gpios".
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> mmm, okay then...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> A grep for that semi-standard properties names in Documentation/
>> >>>>> returns only usage examples and no actual definitions, so I assume
>> >>>>> this is why they are semi-standard.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Here we have to be specific about a particular property, let it be
>> >>>> 'oe-gpios' vs. 'enable-gpios' and let's collect some statistics:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> % grep -Hr oe-gpios Documentation/devicetree/bindings/* | wc -l
>> >>>> 0
>> >>>>
>> >>>> $ grep -Hr enable-gpios Documentation/devicetree/bindings/* | wc -l
>> >>>> 86
>> >>>>
>> >>>> While 'thine,oe-gpios' would be correct, I see no reason to introduce
>> >>>> a vendor specific property to define a pin with a common and well
>> >>>> understood purpose.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If you go forward with the vendor specific prefix, apparently you can
>> >>>> set the name to 'thine,oe-gpio' (single) or even to 'thine,oe', or does
>> >>>> the datasheet names the pin as "OE GPIO" or "OE connected to a GPIO"? I
>> >>>> guess no.
>> >>>
>> >>> Let me clarify I don't want to push for a vendor specific name or
>> >>> similar, I'm fine with using 'semi-standard' names, I'm just confused
>> >>> by the 'semi-standard' definition. I guess from your examples, the
>> >>> usage count makes a difference here.
>> >>
>> >> yes, in gneneral you can read "semi-standard" as "widely used", thus
>> >> collecting statistics is a good enough method to make a reasoning.
>> >>
>> >> Hopefully the next evolutionary step of "widely used" is "described in
>> >> standard".
>> >>
>> >>>> Standards do not define '-gpios' suffix, but partially the description
>> >>>> is found in Documentation/bindings/gpio/gpio.txt, still it is not a
>> >>>> section in any standard as far as I know.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Seems like there is some tribal knowledge involved in defining what
>> >>>>> is semi-standard and what's not, or are those properties documented
>> >>>>> somewhere?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The point is that there is no formal standard which describes every
>> >>>> IP, every IC and every single their property, some device node names
>> >>>> and property names are recommended in ePAPR and Devicetree
>> >>>> Specification though.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Think of a confusion if 'rst-gpios' (have you seen any ICs with an RST
>> >>>> pin?) and 'reset-gpios' are different. Same applies to 'pdwn-gpios'
>> >>>> vs. 'powerdown-gpios'.
>> >>>
>> >>> I see all your points and I agree with most of them. Anyway, if the
>> >>> chip manual describes a pin as 'RST' I would not find it confusing to
>> >>> have a 'rst-gpio' defined in bindings :)
>> >>>
>> >>> Let me be a bit pesky here: what if a chip defines a reset GPIO, which
>> >>> is definitely a reset, but names it, say "XYZ" ? Would you prefer to
>> >>> see it defined as "reset-gpios" for consistency with other bindings,
>> >>> or "xyz-gpios" for consistency with documentation?
>> >>
>> >> If a pin is definitely an IC reset as you said, then my preference is to
>> >> see it described under 'reset-gpios' property name, plus a comment in
>> >> the IC device tree documentation document about it. I can provide two
>> >> reasons to advocate my position:
>> >>
>> >> 1) developers spend significantly more time reading and editing the
>> >> actual
>> >>
>> >>    DTSI/DTS board files rather than reading and editing documentation,
>> >>    it makes sense to use common property names to save time and reduce
>> >>    amount of "what does 'oe' stand for?" type of questions; I suppose
>> >>    that the recommendation to avoid not "widely used" abbreviations in
>> >>    device node and property names arises from the same reasoning,
>> >>
>> >> 2) "widely used" and "standard" properties are excellent candidates for
>> >>
>> >>    developing (or re-using) generalization wrappers, it happened so many
>> >>    times in the past, and this process shall be supported in my opinion;
>> >>    due to compatibility restrictions it might be problematic to change
>> >>    property names, and every new exception to "widely used" properties
>> >>    makes problematic to develop and maintain these kinds of wrappers, and
>> >>    of course it postpones a desired "described in standard" recognition.
>> >>
>> >> If my point of view is accepted, I do admit that a developer who
>> >> translates a board schematics to board DTS file may experience a minor
>> >> discomfort, which is mitigated if relevant pin names are found in device
>> >> tree binding documentation in comments to properties, still the overall
>> >> gain is noticeably higher in my personal opinion.
>> >
>> > I have to disagree with this. When using a property name that doesn't
>> > correspond to the hardware documentation, developers will need to refer to
>> > the DT bindings documentation to confirm the property name. "Widely used"
>> > property names will not save time, they will use more time. This is of
>> > course marginal and I don't think it would have any noticeable impact,
>> > but I don't think your argument holds.
>>
>> We can have it both ways. The name should follow the documented
>> name/function. For example, we have enable-gpios which is simply the
>> invert of powerdown-gpios (for software's purposes). Pick the one
>> closest to the documentation. We're not trying to make bindings use
>> "enable" if a signal is called "powerdown".
>>
>> What we don't want is gratuitous variation in the names based on the
>> whims of hw designers:
>>
>> resetb-gpios
>> resetn-gpios
>> rst-gpios
>> rstn-gpios
>> nRESET-gpios
>>
>> ...you get the idea (and I left out vendor prefixes).
>
> Do we have a list of standardized names that should be used preferentially ?

No. I think the list is pretty much in this thread. I didn't find any
others grepping the tree.

There was an effort with USB devices to do "generic" power/reset
control, but I think that never landed. It was using standard property
names like reset-gpios within the device nodes rather than the
approach used by mmc pwrseq binding (which I'm not a fan of).

> If not, should we create one ?

Sure. You can put it in the root. Then maybe people will find it.

>> > I'm all for standardizing properties across DT bindings for multiple
>> > components, but doing so in a semi-random fashion will in my opinion not
>> > result in any gain. We can decide that power-down or output-enable GPIOS
>> > should have common property names (and I'm not even sure that would be
>> > useful, but we can certainly discuss it), but in that case someone should
>> > make a proposal and get the names standardized. Unless we do so, no
>> > matter what property name gets picked for a particular binding, it won't
>> > become universally used by magic.
>>
>> For "output enable", I suspect that is a common signal/function and
>> should have a standardized name. Generally, the way this works is we
>> get several variations and then we try to standardize things. I think
>> we can all agree standardizing first is better. If you want to put it
>> in a common place, please do. Maybe people will read that. Regardless,
>> the only way to enforce following standard names is with review.
>>
>> Debating "oe" vs. "output-enable" is bikeshedding IMO. Anyone familiar
>> with h/w design should recognize OE.
>>
>> The reason to try and standardize names is so we can have common
>> drivers or library functions. In particular, for things like GPIOs
>> that need to be configured first for devices on otherwise discoverable
>> buses, this is very useful.
>
> I'm not sure we will ever implement that for the OE or power-down GPIOs, but
> I'm also not sure we will never do it, so I suppose it makes sense, just in
> case.

It's no different than "power-supply" in the simple panel binding
which we support in the common driver.

Rob

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