linux-kernel - Re: [dm-devel] [RFC] dm-bow working prototype

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1810261558460.28906@file01.intranet.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com>
Date:   Fri, 26 Oct 2018 16:03:10 -0400 (EDT)
From:   Mikulas Patocka <mpatocka@...hat.com>
To:     Paul Lawrence <paullawrence@...gle.com>
cc:     Alasdair Kergon <agk@...hat.com>,
        Mike Snitzer <snitzer@...hat.com>, linux-doc@...r.kernel.org,
        kernel-team@...roid.com, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-raid@...r.kernel.org,
        dm-devel@...hat.com, Shaohua Li <shli@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [RFC] dm-bow working prototype



On Thu, 25 Oct 2018, Paul Lawrence wrote:

> Thank you for the suggestion. I spent part of yesterday experimenting with
> this idea, and it is certainly very promising. However, it does have some
> disadvantages as compared to dm-bow, if I am understanding the setup
> correctly:
> 
> 1) Since dm-snap has no concept of the free space on the underlying file
> system any write into the free space will trigger a backup, so using twice the
> space of dm-bow. Changing existing data will create a backup with both
> drivers, but since we have to reserve the space for the backups up-front with
> dm-snap, we would likely only have half the space for that. Either way, it
> seems that dm-bow is likely to double the amount of changes we could make.
> 
> (Might it be possible to dynamically resize the backup file if it is mostly
> used up? This would fix the problem of only having half the space for changing

Yes - the snapshot store can be extended while the snapshot is active.

> existing data. The documentation seems to indicate that you can increase the
> size of the snapshot partition, and it seems like it should be possible to
> grow the underlying file without triggering a lot of writes. OTOH this would
> have to happen in userspace which creates other issues.)
> 
> 2) Similarly, since writes into free space do not trigger a backup in dm-bow,
> dm-bow is likely to have a lower performance overhead in many circumstances.
> On the flip side, dm-bow's backup is in free space and will collide with other
> writes, so this advantage will reduce as free space fills up. But by choosing
> a suitable algorithm for how we use free space we might be able to retain most
> of this advantage.
> 
> I intend to put together a fully working prototype of your suggestion next to
> better compare with dm-bow. But I do believe there is value in tracking free
> space and utilizing it in any such solution.

The snapshot target could be hacked so that it remembers space trimmed 
with REQ_OP_DISCARD and won't reallocate these blocks.

But I suspect that running discard over the whole device would degrade 
performance more than copying some unneeded data.

How much data do you intend to backup with this solution?

Mikulas