linux-kernel - Re: Official Linux system wrapper library?

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <CAKOZuetCGCfNdJ2QM0phu3_3Q29f5Yeh=NHiM_A9MhHsCjK48A@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Wed, 14 Nov 2018 10:35:42 -0800
From:   Daniel Colascione <dancol@...gle.com>
To:     Joseph Myers <joseph@...esourcery.com>
Cc:     Szabolcs Nagy <Szabolcs.Nagy@....com>,
        Dave P Martin <Dave.Martin@....com>, nd <nd@....com>,
        Florian Weimer <fweimer@...hat.com>,
        "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@...il.com>,
        linux-kernel <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Joel Fernandes <joelaf@...gle.com>,
        Linux API <linux-api@...r.kernel.org>,
        Willy Tarreau <w@....eu>, Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@...e.cz>,
        "Carlos O'Donell" <carlos@...hat.com>,
        "libc-alpha@...rceware.org" <libc-alpha@...rceware.org>
Subject: Re: Official Linux system wrapper library?

On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Joseph Myers <joseph@...esourcery.com> wrote:
> Any
> feature (e.g. syscall library) with a design coming solely from the kernel
> rather than a cooperative process is also likely to have an unsuitable
> design meaning it doesn't get used.

Is that so? membarrier came directly from the kernel. It gets used and
appears to have a suitable design. That something isn't used by libc
doesn't mean that it doesn't get used in general.

>  Once we have sufficient communication
> to design suitable interfaces *together*, "avoiding the need to
> communicate" becomes irrelevant as a design criterion anyway.

If that approach is going to go work, the libc maintainership needs to
be more pragmatic, less idealistic, and less likely to block work on
purity grounds, e.g., we shouldn't do X because the dynamic linker
really should be out-of-process, we can't do Y because nobody should
be using signals, and we can't do Z because the kernel uses IDs that
have such-and-such ugly properties.

A good demonstration of a new commitment to pragmatism would be
merging the trivial wrappers for gettid(2).