Message-ID: <20190320090857.GB13193@iweiny-DESK2.sc.intel.com>
Date:   Wed, 20 Mar 2019 02:08:57 -0700
From:   Ira Weiny <ira.weiny@...el.com>
To:     Jerome Glisse <jglisse@...hat.com>
Cc:     John Hubbard <jhubbard@...dia.com>,
        Dave Chinner <david@...morbit.com>,
        "Kirill A. Shutemov" <kirill@...temov.name>,
        john.hubbard@...il.com, Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        linux-mm@...ck.org, Al Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
        Christian Benvenuti <benve@...co.com>,
        Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org>,
        Christopher Lameter <cl@...ux.com>,
        Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@...el.com>,
        Dennis Dalessandro <dennis.dalessandro@...el.com>,
        Doug Ledford <dledford@...hat.com>, Jan Kara <jack@...e.cz>,
        Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@...pe.ca>,
        Matthew Wilcox <willy@...radead.org>,
        Michal Hocko <mhocko@...nel.org>,
        Mike Rapoport <rppt@...ux.ibm.com>,
        Mike Marciniszyn <mike.marciniszyn@...el.com>,
        Ralph Campbell <rcampbell@...dia.com>,
        Tom Talpey <tom@...pey.com>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org,
        Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 1/1] mm: introduce put_user_page*(), placeholder
 versions

On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 12:33:20AM -0400, Jerome Glisse wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 06:43:45PM -0700, John Hubbard wrote:
> > On 3/19/19 5:08 PM, Jerome Glisse wrote:
> > > On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 10:57:52AM +1100, Dave Chinner wrote:
> > >> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 06:06:55PM -0400, Jerome Glisse wrote:
> > >>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 08:23:46AM +1100, Dave Chinner wrote:
> > >>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 10:14:16AM -0400, Jerome Glisse wrote:
> > >>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 09:47:24AM -0400, Jerome Glisse wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 03:04:17PM +0300, Kirill A. Shutemov wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 08, 2019 at 01:36:33PM -0800, john.hubbard@...il.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> From: John Hubbard <jhubbard@...dia.com>
> > >>>>>> [...]
> > >>>>> Forgot to mention one thing, we had a discussion with Andrea and Jan
> > >>>>> about set_page_dirty() and Andrea had the good idea of maybe doing
> > >>>>> the set_page_dirty() at GUP time (when GUP with write) not when the
> > >>>>> GUP user calls put_page(). We can do that by setting the dirty bit
> > >>>>> in the pte for instance. They are few bonus of doing things that way:
> > >>>>>     - amortize the cost of calling set_page_dirty() (ie one call for
> > >>>>>       GUP and page_mkclean()
> > >>>>>     - it is always safe to do so at GUP time (ie the pte has write
> > >>>>>       permission and thus the page is in correct state)
> > >>>>>     - safe from truncate race
> > >>>>>     - no need to ever lock the page
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I seem to have missed this conversation, so please excuse me for
> > >>>
> > >>> The set_page_dirty() at GUP was in a private discussion (it started
> > >>> on another topic and drifted away to set_page_dirty()).
> > >>>
> > >>>> asking a stupid question: if it's a file backed page, what prevents
> > >>>> background writeback from cleaning the dirty page ~30s into a long
> > >>>> term pin? i.e. I don't see anything in this proposal that prevents
> > >>>> the page from being cleaned by writeback and putting us straight
> > >>>> back into the situation where a long term RDMA is writing to a clean
> > >>>> page....
> > >>>
> > >>> So this patchset does not solve this issue.
> > >>
> > >> OK, so it just kicks the can further down the road.
> > >>
> > >>>     [3..N] decide what to do for GUPed page, so far the plans seems
> > >>>          to be to keep the page always dirty and never allow page
> > >>>          write back to restore the page in a clean state. This does
> > >>>          disable thing like COW and other fs feature but at least
> > >>>          it seems to be the best thing we can do.
> > >>
> > >> So the plan for GUP vs writeback so far is "break fsync()"? :)
> > >>
> > >> We might need to work on that a bit more...
> > > 
> > > Sorry forgot to say that we still do write back using a bounce page
> > > so that at least we write something to disk that is just a snapshot
> > > of the GUPed page everytime writeback kicks in (so either through
> > > radix tree dirty page write back or fsync or any other sync events).
> > > So many little details that i forgot the big chunk :)
> > > 
> > > Cheers,
> > > Jérôme
> > > 
> > 
> > Dave, Jan, Jerome,
> > 
> > Bounce pages for periodic data integrity still seem viable. But for the
> > question of things like fsync or truncate, I think we were zeroing in
> > on file leases as a nice building block.
> > 
> > Can we revive the file lease discussion? By going all the way out to user
> > space and requiring file leases to be coordinated at a high level in the
> > software call chain, it seems like we could routinely avoid some of the
> > worst conflicts that the kernel code has to resolve.
> > 
> > For example:
> > 
> > Process A
> > =========
> >     gets a lease on file_a that allows gup 
> >         usage on a range within file_a
> > 
> >     sets up writable DMA:
> >         get_user_pages() on the file_a range
> >         start DMA (independent hardware ops)
> >             hw is reading and writing to range
> > 
> >                                                     Process B
> >                                                     =========
> >                                                     truncate(file_a)
> >                                                        ...
> >                                                        __break_lease()
> >     
> >     handle SIGIO from __break_lease
> >          if unhandled, process gets killed
> >          and put_user_pages should get called
> >          at some point here
> > 
> > ...and so this way, user space gets to decide the proper behavior,
> > instead of leaving the kernel in the dark with an impossible decision
> > (kill process A? Block process B? User space knows the preference,
> > per app, but kernel does not.)
> 
> There is no need to kill anything here ... if truncate happens then
> the GUP user is just GUPing page that do not correspond to anything
> anymore. This is the current behavior and it is what GUP always has
> been. By the time you get the page from GUP there is no garantee that
> they correspond to anything.
> 
> If a device really want to mirror process address faithfully then the
> hardware need to make little effort either have something like ATS/
> PASID or be able to abide mmu notifier.
> 
> If we start blocking existing syscall just because someone is doing a
> GUP we are opening a pandora box. It is not just truncate, it is a
> whole range of syscall that deals with either file or virtual address.
> 
> The semantic of GUP is really the semantic of direct I/O and the
> virtual address you are direct I/O-ing to/from and the rule there is:
> do not do anything stupid to those virtual addresses while you are
> doing direct I/O with them (no munmap, mremap, madvise, truncate, ...).
> 
> 
> Same logic apply to file, when two process do thing to same file there
> the kernel never get in the way of one process doing something the
> other process did not expect. For instance one process mmaping the file
> the other process truncating the file, if the first process try to access
> the file through the mmap after the truncation it will get a sigbus.
> 
> So i believe best we could do is send a SIGBUS to the process that has
> GUPed a range of a file that is being truncated this would match what
> we do for CPU acces. There is no reason access through GUP should be
> handled any differently.

I agree in sending SIGBUS but the fact is most "Process A"'s will not be
handling SIGBUS and will then result in that process dying.

Ira

>
> Cheers,
> Jérôme
> 

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