linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH bpf-next v1 00/13] MAC and Audit policy using eBPF (KRSI)

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Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.21.2001090551000.27794@namei.org>
Date:   Thu, 9 Jan 2020 05:58:29 +1100 (AEDT)
From:   James Morris <jmorris@...ei.org>
To:     Stephen Smalley <sds@...ho.nsa.gov>
cc:     Kees Cook <keescook@...omium.org>, KP Singh <kpsingh@...omium.org>,
        Casey Schaufler <casey@...aufler-ca.com>,
        open list <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        bpf <bpf@...r.kernel.org>, linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org,
        Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...nel.org>,
        Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>,
        Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@...omium.org>,
        Michael Halcrow <mhalcrow@...gle.com>,
        Paul Turner <pjt@...gle.com>,
        Brendan Gregg <brendan.d.gregg@...il.com>,
        Jann Horn <jannh@...gle.com>,
        Matthew Garrett <mjg59@...gle.com>,
        Christian Brauner <christian@...uner.io>,
        Mickaël Salaün <mic@...ikod.net>,
        Florent Revest <revest@...omium.org>,
        Brendan Jackman <jackmanb@...omium.org>,
        Martin KaFai Lau <kafai@...com>,
        Song Liu <songliubraving@...com>, Yonghong Song <yhs@...com>,
        "Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@...lyn.com>,
        Mauro Carvalho Chehab <mchehab+samsung@...nel.org>,
        "David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
        Nicolas Ferre <nicolas.ferre@...rochip.com>,
        Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@...gle.com>,
        Quentin Monnet <quentin.monnet@...ronome.com>,
        Andrey Ignatov <rdna@...com>, Joe Stringer <joe@...d.net.nz>,
        Paul Moore <paul@...l-moore.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH bpf-next v1 00/13] MAC and Audit policy using eBPF
 (KRSI)

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020, Stephen Smalley wrote:

> This appears to impose a very different standard to this eBPF-based LSM than
> has been applied to the existing LSMs, e.g. we are required to preserve
> SELinux policy compatibility all the way back to Linux 2.6.0 such that new
> kernel with old policy does not break userspace.  If that standard isn't being
> applied to the eBPF-based LSM, it seems to inhibit its use in major Linux
> distros, since otherwise users will in fact start experiencing breakage on the
> first such incompatible change.  Not arguing for or against, just trying to
> make sure I understand correctly...

A different standard would be applied here vs. a standard LSM like 
SELinux, which are retrofitted access control systems.

I see KRSI as being more of a debugging / analytical API, rather than an 
access control system. You could of course build such a system with KRSI 
but it would need to provide a layer of abstraction for general purpose 
users.

So yes this would be a special case, as its real value is in being a 
special case, i.e. dynamic security telemetry.


-- 
James Morris
<jmorris@...ei.org>