Message-ID: <CALOAHbCbyUUMCBaNOaXFaW0+3-j40L1KcZ564wvbrqvsik7ebA@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:31:35 +0800
From:   Yafang Shao <laoar.shao@...il.com>
To:     Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org>
Cc:     Michal Hocko <mhocko@...nel.org>,
        Chris Down <chris@...isdown.name>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Roman Gushchin <guro@...com>, Linux MM <linux-mm@...ck.org>,
        Cgroups <cgroups@...r.kernel.org>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/2] mm, memcg: Avoid stale protection values when cgroup
 is above protection

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 10:27 PM Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 10:17:21PM +0800, Yafang Shao wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 10:03 PM Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 12:15:10PM +0200, Michal Hocko wrote:
> > > > On Tue 28-04-20 19:26:47, Chris Down wrote:
> > > > > From: Yafang Shao <laoar.shao@...il.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > A cgroup can have both memory protection and a memory limit to isolate
> > > > > it from its siblings in both directions - for example, to prevent it
> > > > > from being shrunk below 2G under high pressure from outside, but also
> > > > > from growing beyond 4G under low pressure.
> > > > >
> > > > > Commit 9783aa9917f8 ("mm, memcg: proportional memory.{low,min} reclaim")
> > > > > implemented proportional scan pressure so that multiple siblings in
> > > > > excess of their protection settings don't get reclaimed equally but
> > > > > instead in accordance to their unprotected portion.
> > > > >
> > > > > During limit reclaim, this proportionality shouldn't apply of course:
> > > > > there is no competition, all pressure is from within the cgroup and
> > > > > should be applied as such. Reclaim should operate at full efficiency.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, mem_cgroup_protected() never expected anybody to look at the
> > > > > effective protection values when it indicated that the cgroup is above
> > > > > its protection. As a result, a query during limit reclaim may return
> > > > > stale protection values that were calculated by a previous reclaim cycle
> > > > > in which the cgroup did have siblings.
> > > > >
> > > > > When this happens, reclaim is unnecessarily hesitant and potentially
> > > > > slow to meet the desired limit. In theory this could lead to premature
> > > > > OOM kills, although it's not obvious this has occurred in practice.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks this describes the underlying problem. I would be also explicit
> > > > that the issue should be visible only on tail memcgs which have both
> > > > max/high and protection configured and the effect depends on the
> > > > difference between the two (the smaller it is the largrger the effect).
> > > >
> > > > There is no mention about the fix. The patch resets effective values for
> > > > the reclaim root and I've had some concerns about that
> > > > http://lkml.kernel.org/r/20200424162103.GK11591@dhcp22.suse.cz.
> > > > Johannes has argued that other races are possible and I didn't get to
> > > > think about it thoroughly. But this patch is introducing a new
> > > > possibility of breaking protection. If we want to have a quick and
> > > > simple fix that would be easier to backport to older kernels then I
> > > > would feel much better if we simply workedaround the problem as
> > > > suggested earlier http://lkml.kernel.org/r/20200423061629.24185-1-laoar.shao@gmail.com
> > > > We can rework the effective values calculation to be more robust against
> > > > races on top of that because this is likely a more tricky thing to do.
> > >
> > > Well, can you please *do* think more thoroughly about what I wrote,
> > > instead of pushing for an alternative patch on gut feeling alone?
> > >
> > > Especially when you imply that this should be a stable patch.
> > >
> > > Not only does your alternative patch not protect against the race you
> > > are worried about, the race itself doesn't matter. Racing reclaimers
> > > will write their competing views of the world into the shared state on
> > > all other levels anyway.
> > >
> > > And that's okay. If the configuration and memory usage is such that
> > > there is at least one reclaimer that scans without any protection
> > > (like a limit reclaimer), it's not a problem when a second reclaimer
> > > that meant to do protected global reclaim will also do one iteration
> > > without protection. It's no different than if a second thread had
> > > entered limit reclaim through another internal allocation.
> > >
> > > There is no semantical violation with the race in your patch or the
> > > race in this patch. Any effective protection that becomes visible is
> > > 1) permitted by the configuration, but 2) also triggered *right now*
> > > by an acute need to reclaim memory with these parameters.
> > >
> > > The *right now* part is important. That's what's broken before either
> > > patch, and that's what we're fixing: to see really, really *old* stale
> > > that might not be representative of the config semantics anymore.
> > >
> > > Since you haven't linked to my email, here is my counter argument to
> > > the alternative patch "fixing" this race somehow.
> > >
> > > A reclaim:
> > >
> > >   root
> > >      `- A (low=2G, max=3G -> elow=0)
> > >         `- A1 (low=0G -> elow=0)
> > >
> > > Global reclaim:
> > >
> > >   root
> > >      `- A (low=2G, max=3G -> elow=2G)
> > >         `- A1 (low=0G -> elow=2G)
> > >
> > > During global reclaim, A1 is supposed to have 2G effective low
> > > protection. If A limit reclaim races, it can set A1's elow to
> > > 0.
> >
> > Before the commit  8a931f801340c2be ("mm: memcontrol: recursive
> > memory.low protection"), the A1's elow should be 0, while after this
> > commit A1's elow is 2G.
> > That is a behavior change.
>
> Yes, that was an intentional change around the inheritance rules.
>
> And your alternative patch doesn't fix the race you are (wrongly)
> worried about under these rules.
>
> What's your point, exactly?
>

No point, really.

> > Then this case gives us another example why accessing emin and elow in
> > the very deap reclaiming code (get_scan_count) is the root of ALL
> > EVIL.
>
> You must be confusing this software engineering list with a witch
> doctor conference.

No, I didn't consider you as a witch doctor.


-- 
Thanks
Yafang

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