lists.openwall.net   lists  /  announce  owl-users  owl-dev  john-users  john-dev  passwdqc-users  yescrypt  popa3d-users  /  oss-security  kernel-hardening  musl  sabotage  tlsify  passwords  /  crypt-dev  xvendor  /  Bugtraq  Full-Disclosure  linux-kernel  linux-netdev  linux-ext4  linux-hardening  PHC 
Open Source and information security mailing list archives
 
Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.
[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]
Date:   Mon, 06 Jul 2020 21:24:24 +0300
From:   Sergey Organov <sorganov@...il.com>
To:     Vladimir Oltean <olteanv@...il.com>
Cc:     richardcochran@...il.com, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, Fugang Duan <fugang.duan@....com>,
        "David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH  3/5] net: fec: initialize clock with 0 rather than
 current kernel time

Vladimir Oltean <olteanv@...il.com> writes:

> Hi Sergey,
>
> On Mon, Jul 06, 2020 at 05:26:14PM +0300, Sergey Organov wrote:
>> Initializing with 0 makes it much easier to identify time stamps from
>> otherwise uninitialized clock.
>> 
>> Initialization of PTP clock with current kernel time makes little sense as
>> PTP time scale differs from UTC time scale that kernel time represents.
>> It only leads to confusion when no actual PTP initialization happens, as
>> these time scales differ in a small integer number of seconds (37 at the
>> time of writing.)
>> 
>> Signed-off-by: Sergey Organov <sorganov@...il.com>
>> ---
>
> Reading your patch, I got reminded of my own attempt of making an
> identical change to the ptp_qoriq driver:
>
> https://www.spinics.net/lists/netdev/msg601625.html
>
> Could we have some sort of kernel-wide convention, I wonder (even though
> it might be too late for that)? After your patch, I can see equal
> amounts of confusion of users expecting some boot-time output of
> $(phc_ctl /dev/ptp0 get) as it used to be, and now getting something
> else.
>
> There's no correct answer, I'm afraid.

IMHO, the correct answer would be keep non-initialized clock at 0. No
ticking.

> Whatever the default value of the clock may be, it's bound to be
> confusing for some reason, _if_ the reason why you're investigating it
> in the first place is a driver bug. Also, I don't really see how your
> change to use Jan 1st 1970 makes it any less confusing.

When I print the clocks in application, I see seconds and milliseconds
part since epoch. With this patch seconds count from 0, that simply
match uptime. Easy to tell from any other (malfunctioning) clock.

Here is the description of confusion and improvement. I spent half a day
not realizing that I sometimes get timestamps from the wrong PTP clock.
Part of the problem is that kernel time at startup, when it is used for
initialization of the PTP clock, is in fact somewhat random, and it
could be off by a few seconds. Now, when in application I get time stamp
that is almost right, and then another one that is, say, 9 seconds off,
what should I think? Right, that I drive PTP clock wrongly.

Now, when one of those timestamps is almost 0, I see immediately I got
time from wrong PTP clock, rather than wrong time from correct PTP
clock.

Thanks,
-- Sergey

Powered by blists - more mailing lists