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Date:   Mon, 19 Oct 2020 13:32:26 +0100
From:   Jonathan Cameron <>
To:     Peter Zijlstra <>
CC:     <>,
        <>, <>,
        Len Brown <>,
        Greg Kroah-Hartman <>,
        Sudeep Holla <>, <>,
        Will Deacon <>, <>,
        Brice Goglin <>,
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] topology: Represent clusters of CPUs within a die.

On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 12:35:22 +0200
Peter Zijlstra <> wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 11:27:02PM +0800, Jonathan Cameron wrote:
> > Both ACPI and DT provide the ability to describe additional layers of
> > topology between that of individual cores and higher level constructs
> > such as the level at which the last level cache is shared.
> > In ACPI this can be represented in PPTT as a Processor Hierarchy
> > Node Structure [1] that is the parent of the CPU cores and in turn
> > has a parent Processor Hierarchy Nodes Structure representing
> > a higher level of topology.
> > 
> > For example Kunpeng 920 has clusters of 4 CPUs.  These do not share
> > any cache resources, but the interconnect topology is such that
> > the cost to transfer ownership of a cacheline between CPUs within
> > a cluster is lower than between CPUs in different clusters on the same
> > die.   Hence, it can make sense to deliberately schedule threads
> > sharing data to a single cluster.
> > 
> > This patch simply exposes this information to userspace libraries
> > like hwloc by providing cluster_cpus and related sysfs attributes.
> > PoC of HWLOC support at [2].
> > 
> > Note this patch only handle the ACPI case.
> > 
> > Special consideration is needed for SMT processors, where it is
> > necessary to move 2 levels up the hierarchy from the leaf nodes
> > (thus skipping the processor core level).  

Hi Peter,

> I'm confused by all of this. The core level is exactly what you seem to
> want.

It's the level above the core, whether in an multi-threaded core
or a single threaded core.   This may correspond to the level
at which caches are shared (typically L3).  Cores are already well
represented via thread_siblings and similar.  Extra confusion is that
the current core_siblings (deprecated) sysfs interface, actually reflects
the package level and ignores anything in between core and
package (such as die on x86)

So in a typical system with a hierarchical interconnect you would have

cluster (possibly multiple layers as mentioned in Brice's reply).

Unfortunately as pointed out in other branches of this thread, there is
no consistent generic name.  I'm open to suggestions!

Both ACPI PPTT and DT provide generic structures to represent layers of
topology.   They don't name as such, but in ACPI there are flags to indicate
package, core, thread. 

For example, in zen2 this would correspond to a 'core complex' consisting
4 CPU cores (each one 2 threads) sharing some local L3 cache.
In zen3 it looks like this level will be the same as that for the die.

Given they used the name in knights landing (and as is pointed out in
another branch of this thread, it's the CPUID description) I think Intel
calls these 'tiles' (anyone confirm that?) 

A similar concept exists for some ARM processors.
CCLs in the diagram on that page.

Centriq 2400 had 2 core 'duplexes' which shared l2.

>From the info release at hotchips, it looks like the thunderx3 deploys
a similar ring interconnect with groups of cores, each with 4 threads.
Not sure what they plan to call them yet though or whether they will chose
to represent that layer of the topology in their firmware tables.

Arms CMN600 interconnect also support such 'clusters' though I have no idea
if anyone has used it in this form yet.  In that case, they are called
"processor compute clusters"

Xuantie-910 is cluster based as well (shares l2).

So in many cases the cluster level corresponds to something we already have
visibility of due to cache sharing etc, but that isn't true in kunpeng 920.



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