linux-kernel - Re: Documentation/memory-barriers.txt: Is "stores are not speculated" correct?

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Date:   Mon, 26 Apr 2021 17:16:15 +0200
From:   maranget <luc.maranget@...ia.fr>
To:     Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@...radead.org>
Cc:     "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...nel.org>,
        szyhb810501.student@...a.com, stern <stern@...land.harvard.edu>,
        "parri.andrea" <parri.andrea@...il.com>, will <will@...nel.org>,
        peterz <peterz@...radead.org>,
        "boqun.feng" <boqun.feng@...il.com>, npiggin <npiggin@...il.com>,
        dhowells <dhowells@...hat.com>,
        "j.alglave" <j.alglave@....ac.uk>,
        linux-kernel <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Documentation/memory-barriers.txt: Is "stores are not speculated"
 correct?



> On 26 Apr 2021, at 17:13, Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@...radead.org> wrote:
> 
> On 4/26/21 2:30 AM, Luc Maranget wrote:
>>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 10:23:09AM +0800, szyhb810501.student@...a.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello everyone, I have a question."Documentation/memory-barriers.txt"
>>>> says:However, stores are not speculated.  This means that ordering -is-
>>>> providedfor load-store control dependencies, as in the following example:
>>> 	q = READ_ONCE(a);
>>> 	if (q) {
>>> 		WRITE_ONCE(b, 1);
>>> 	}
>>>> Is "stores are not speculated" correct? I
>>>> think store instructions can be executed speculatively.
>>>> "https://stackoverflow.com/questions/64141366/can-a-speculatively-executed-cpu-branch-contain-opcodes-that-access-ram"
>>>> says:Store instructions can also be executed speculatively thanks to the
>>>> store buffer. The actual execution of a store just writes the address and
>>>> data into the store buffer.Commit to L1d cache happens some time after
>>>> the store instruction retires from the ROB, i.e. when the store is known
>>>> to be non-speculative, the associated store-buffer entry "graduates"
>>>> and becomes eligible to commit to cache and become globally visible.
>>> 
>>>> From the viewpoint of other CPUs, the store hasn't really happened
>>> until it finds its way into a cacheline.  As you yourself note above,
>>> if the store is still in the store buffer, it might be squashed when
>>> speculation fails.
>>> 
>>> So Documentation/memory-barriers.txt and that stackoverflow entry are
>>> not really in conflict, but are instead using words a bit differently
>>> from each other.  The stackoverflow entry is considering a store to have
>>> in some sense happened during a time when it might later be squashed.
>>> In contrast, the Documentation/memory-barriers.txt document only considers
>>> a store to have completed once it is visible outside of the CPU executing
>>> that store.
>>> 
>>> So from a stackoverflow viewpoint, stores can be speculated, but until
>>> they are finalized, they must be hidden from other CPUs.
>>> 
>>>> From a Documentation/memory-barriers.txt viewpoint, stores don't complete
>>> until they update their cachelines, and stores may not be speculated.
>>> Some of the actions that lead up to the completion of a store may be
>>> speculated, but not the completion of the store itself.
>>> 
>>> Different words, but same effect.  Welcome to our world!  ;-)
>>> 
>>> 							Thanx, Paul
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Here is a complement to Paul's excellent answer.
>> 
>> The "CPU-local" speculation of stores can be observed
>> by the following test (in C11)
>> 
>> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
>> 
>> C PPOCA
>> 
>> {}
>> 
>> P0(volatile int* y, volatile int* x) {
>> 
>>  atomic_store(x,1);
>>  atomic_store(y,1);
>> 
>> }
>> 
>> P1(volatile int* z, volatile int* y, volatile int* x) {
>> 
>>  int r1=-1; int r2=-1;
>>  int r0 = atomic_load_explicit(y,memory_order_relaxed);
>>  if (r0) {
>>    atomic_store_explicit(z,1,memory_order_relaxed);
>>    r1 = atomic_load_explicit(z,memory_order_relaxed);
>>    r2 = atomic_load_explicit(x+(r1 & 128),memory_order_relaxed);
>>  }
>> 
>> }
>> 
>> 
>> This is a variation on the MP test.
>> 
>> Because of tht conditionnal "if (..) { S }" Statements "S" can be executed
>> speculatively.
>> 
>> More precisely, the store statement writes value 1 into the CPU local
>> structure for variable z. The next load statement reads the value,
>> and the last load statement can be peformed (speculatively)
>> as its address is known.
>> 
>> The resulting outcomme is observed for instance on a RaspBerry Pi3,
>> see attached file.
> 
> ?attached file?
> 
> -- 
> ~Randy
> 

Oups, sorry I forgot the attachement:

—Luc

View attachment "LOG.txt" of type "text/plain" (1483 bytes)