Message-ID: <20210426153437.GZ975577@paulmck-ThinkPad-P17-Gen-1>
Date:   Mon, 26 Apr 2021 08:34:37 -0700
From:   "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...nel.org>
To:     maranget <luc.maranget@...ia.fr>
Cc:     Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@...radead.org>, szyhb810501.student@...a.com,
        stern <stern@...land.harvard.edu>,
        "parri.andrea" <parri.andrea@...il.com>, will <will@...nel.org>,
        peterz <peterz@...radead.org>,
        "boqun.feng" <boqun.feng@...il.com>, npiggin <npiggin@...il.com>,
        dhowells <dhowells@...hat.com>,
        "j.alglave" <j.alglave@....ac.uk>,
        linux-kernel <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Documentation/memory-barriers.txt: Is "stores are not
 speculated" correct?

On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 05:16:15PM +0200, maranget wrote:
> 
> 
> > On 26 Apr 2021, at 17:13, Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@...radead.org> wrote:
> > 
> > On 4/26/21 2:30 AM, Luc Maranget wrote:
> >>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 10:23:09AM +0800, szyhb810501.student@...a.com wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> Hello everyone, I have a question."Documentation/memory-barriers.txt"
> >>>> says:However, stores are not speculated.  This means that ordering -is-
> >>>> providedfor load-store control dependencies, as in the following example:
> >>> 	q = READ_ONCE(a);
> >>> 	if (q) {
> >>> 		WRITE_ONCE(b, 1);
> >>> 	}
> >>>> Is "stores are not speculated" correct? I
> >>>> think store instructions can be executed speculatively.
> >>>> "https://stackoverflow.com/questions/64141366/can-a-speculatively-executed-cpu-branch-contain-opcodes-that-access-ram"
> >>>> says:Store instructions can also be executed speculatively thanks to the
> >>>> store buffer. The actual execution of a store just writes the address and
> >>>> data into the store buffer.Commit to L1d cache happens some time after
> >>>> the store instruction retires from the ROB, i.e. when the store is known
> >>>> to be non-speculative, the associated store-buffer entry "graduates"
> >>>> and becomes eligible to commit to cache and become globally visible.
> >>> 
> >>>> From the viewpoint of other CPUs, the store hasn't really happened
> >>> until it finds its way into a cacheline.  As you yourself note above,
> >>> if the store is still in the store buffer, it might be squashed when
> >>> speculation fails.
> >>> 
> >>> So Documentation/memory-barriers.txt and that stackoverflow entry are
> >>> not really in conflict, but are instead using words a bit differently
> >>> from each other.  The stackoverflow entry is considering a store to have
> >>> in some sense happened during a time when it might later be squashed.
> >>> In contrast, the Documentation/memory-barriers.txt document only considers
> >>> a store to have completed once it is visible outside of the CPU executing
> >>> that store.
> >>> 
> >>> So from a stackoverflow viewpoint, stores can be speculated, but until
> >>> they are finalized, they must be hidden from other CPUs.
> >>> 
> >>>> From a Documentation/memory-barriers.txt viewpoint, stores don't complete
> >>> until they update their cachelines, and stores may not be speculated.
> >>> Some of the actions that lead up to the completion of a store may be
> >>> speculated, but not the completion of the store itself.
> >>> 
> >>> Different words, but same effect.  Welcome to our world!  ;-)
> >>> 
> >>> 							Thanx, Paul
> >> 
> >> Hi all,
> >> 
> >> Here is a complement to Paul's excellent answer.
> >> 
> >> The "CPU-local" speculation of stores can be observed
> >> by the following test (in C11)
> >> 
> >> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> >> 
> >> C PPOCA
> >> 
> >> {}
> >> 
> >> P0(volatile int* y, volatile int* x) {
> >> 
> >>  atomic_store(x,1);
> >>  atomic_store(y,1);
> >> 
> >> }
> >> 
> >> P1(volatile int* z, volatile int* y, volatile int* x) {
> >> 
> >>  int r1=-1; int r2=-1;
> >>  int r0 = atomic_load_explicit(y,memory_order_relaxed);
> >>  if (r0) {
> >>    atomic_store_explicit(z,1,memory_order_relaxed);
> >>    r1 = atomic_load_explicit(z,memory_order_relaxed);
> >>    r2 = atomic_load_explicit(x+(r1 & 128),memory_order_relaxed);
> >>  }
> >> 
> >> }
> >> 
> >> 
> >> This is a variation on the MP test.
> >> 
> >> Because of tht conditionnal "if (..) { S }" Statements "S" can be executed
> >> speculatively.
> >> 
> >> More precisely, the store statement writes value 1 into the CPU local
> >> structure for variable z. The next load statement reads the value,
> >> and the last load statement can be peformed (speculatively)
> >> as its address is known.
> >> 
> >> The resulting outcomme is observed for instance on a RaspBerry Pi3,
> >> see attached file.
> > 
> > ?attached file?
> > 
> > -- 
> > ~Randy
> > 
> 
> Oups, sorry I forgot the attachement:
> 
> —Luc

> Mon Apr 26 09:07:19 UTC 2021
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> % Results for PPOCA.litmus %
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> C PPOCA
> 
> {}
> 
> P0(volatile int* y, volatile int* x) {
> 
>   atomic_store(x,1);
>   atomic_store(y,1);
> 
> }
> 
> P1(volatile int* z, volatile int* y, volatile int* x) {
> 
>   int r1=-1; int r2=-1;
>   int r0 = atomic_load_explicit(y,memory_order_relaxed);
>   if (r0) {
>     atomic_store_explicit(z,1,memory_order_relaxed);
>     r1 = atomic_load_explicit(z,memory_order_relaxed);
>     r2 = atomic_load_explicit(x+(r1 & 128),memory_order_relaxed);
>   }
> 
> }
> 
> 
> exists (1:r0=1 /\ 1:r1=1 /\ 1:r2=0)
> 
> Histogram (3 states)
> 11057696:>1:r0=0; 1:r1=-1; 1:r2=-1;
> 2     *>1:r0=1; 1:r1=1; 1:r2=0;

Fun!!!  ;-)

							Thanx, Paul

> 8942302:>1:r0=1; 1:r1=1; 1:r2=1;
> Ok
> 
> Witnesses
> Positive: 2, Negative: 19999998
> Condition exists (1:r0=1 /\ 1:r1=1 /\ 1:r2=0) is validated
> Hash=bb2426936c19f1555410d1483dd31452
> Observation PPOCA Sometimes 2 19999998
> Time PPOCA 3.30
> Revision 45690d9d0f7a956a6d3dbaf9e912efb22835756e, version 7.56+02~dev
> Command line: litmus7 -mach vougeot -c11 true -o R.tar PPOCA.litmus
> Parameters
> #define SIZE_OF_TEST 10000
> #define NUMBER_OF_RUN 100
> #define AVAIL 4
> #define STRIDE 1
> #define MAX_LOOP 0
> /* gcc options: -Wall -std=gnu11 -O2 -pthread */
> /* barrier: userfence */
> /* launch: changing */
> /* affinity: none */
> /* alloc: dynamic */
> /* memory: direct */
> /* stride: 1 */
> /* safer: write */
> /* preload: random */
> /* speedcheck: no */
> /* proc used: 4 */
> GCC=gcc
> LITMUSOPTS=-s 5k -r 2k -st 1
> Mon Apr 26 09:07:23 UTC 2021

> 
> 

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