Message-ID: <20210602143734.72fb4fa4.alex.williamson@redhat.com>
Date:   Wed, 2 Jun 2021 14:37:34 -0600
From:   Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@...hat.com>
To:     Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@...dia.com>
Cc:     "Tian, Kevin" <kevin.tian@...el.com>,
        Jean-Philippe Brucker <jean-philippe@...aro.org>,
        "Jiang, Dave" <dave.jiang@...el.com>,
        "Raj, Ashok" <ashok.raj@...el.com>,
        "kvm@...r.kernel.org" <kvm@...r.kernel.org>,
        Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>,
        Robin Murphy <robin.murphy@....com>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        "iommu@...ts.linux-foundation.org" <iommu@...ts.linux-foundation.org>,
        David Gibson <david@...son.dropbear.id.au>,
        Kirti Wankhede <kwankhede@...dia.com>,
        David Woodhouse <dwmw2@...radead.org>,
        Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC] /dev/ioasid uAPI proposal

On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 16:54:04 -0300
Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@...dia.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 02, 2021 at 01:00:53PM -0600, Alex Williamson wrote:
> > 
> > Right, the device can generate the no-snoop transactions, but it's the
> > IOMMU that essentially determines whether those transactions are
> > actually still cache coherent, AIUI.  
> 
> Wow, this is really confusing stuff in the code.
> 
> At the PCI level there is a TLP bit called no-snoop that is platform
> specific. The general intention is to allow devices to selectively
> bypass the CPU caching for DMAs. GPUs like to use this feature for
> performance.

Yes

> I assume there is some exciting security issues here. Looks like
> allowing cache bypass does something bad inside VMs? Looks like
> allowing the VM to use the cache clear instruction that is mandatory
> with cache bypass DMA causes some QOS issues? OK.

IIRC, largely a DoS issue if userspace gets to choose when to emulate
wbinvd rather than it being demanded for correct operation.

> So how does it work?
> 
> What I see in the intel/iommu.c is that some domains support "snoop
> control" or not, based on some HW flag. This indicates if the
> DMA_PTE_SNP bit is supported on a page by page basis or not.
> 
> Since x86 always leans toward "DMA cache coherent" I'm reading some
> tea leaves here:
> 
> 	IOMMU_CAP_CACHE_COHERENCY,	/* IOMMU can enforce cache coherent DMA
> 					   transactions */
> 
> And guessing that IOMMUs that implement DMA_PTE_SNP will ignore the
> snoop bit in TLPs for IOVA's that have DMA_PTE_SNP set?

That's my understanding as well.

> Further, I guess IOMMUs that don't support PTE_SNP, or have
> DMA_PTE_SNP clear will always honour the snoop bit. (backwards compat
> and all)

Yes.

> So, IOMMU_CAP_CACHE_COHERENCY does not mean the IOMMU is DMA
> incoherent with the CPU caches, it just means that that snoop bit in
> the TLP cannot be enforced. ie the device *could* do no-shoop DMA
> if it wants. Devices that never do no-snoop remain DMA coherent on
> x86, as they always have been.

Yes, IOMMU_CAP_CACHE_COHERENCY=false means we cannot force the device
DMA to be coherent via the IOMMU.

> IOMMU_CACHE does not mean the IOMMU is DMA cache coherent, it means
> the PCI device is blocked from using no-snoop in its TLPs.
> 
> I wonder if ARM implemented this consistently? I see VDPA is
> confused.. I was confused. What a terrible set of names.
> 
> In VFIO generic code I see it always sets IOMMU_CACHE:
> 
>         if (iommu_capable(bus, IOMMU_CAP_CACHE_COHERENCY))
>                 domain->prot |= IOMMU_CACHE;
> 
> And thus also always provides IOMMU_CACHE to iommu_map:
> 
>                 ret = iommu_map(d->domain, iova, (phys_addr_t)pfn << PAGE_SHIFT,
>                                 npage << PAGE_SHIFT, prot | d->prot);
> 
> So when the IOMMU supports the no-snoop blocking security feature VFIO
> turns it on and blocks no-snoop to all pages? Ok..

Yep, I'd forgotten this nuance that we need to enable it via the
mapping flags.

> But I must be missing something big because *something* in the IOVA
> map should work with no-snoopable DMA, right? Otherwise what is the
> point of exposing the invalidate instruction to the guest?
> 
> I would think userspace should be relaying the DMA_PTE_SNP bit from
> the guest's page tables up to here??
> 
> The KVM hookup is driven by IOMMU_CACHE which is driven by
> IOMMU_CAP_CACHE_COHERENCY. So we turn on the special KVM support only
> if the IOMMU can block the SNP bit? And then we map all the pages to
> block the snoop bit? Huh?

Right.  I don't follow where you're jumping to relaying DMA_PTE_SNP
from the guest page table... what page table?  We don't necessarily
have a vIOMMU to expose such things, I don't think it even existed when
this we added.  Essentially if we can ignore no-snoop at the IOMMU,
then KVM doesn't need to worry about emulating wbinvd because of an
assigned device, whether that device uses it or not.  Win-win.

> Your explanation makes perfect sense: Block guests from using the
> dangerous cache invalidate instruction unless a device that uses
> no-snoop is plugged in. Block devices from using no-snoop because
> something about it is insecure. Ok.

No-snoop itself is not insecure, but to support no-snoop in a VM KVM
can't ignore wbinvd, which has overhead and abuse implications.

> But the conditions I'm looking for "device that uses no-snoop" is:
>  - The device will issue no-snoop TLPs at all

We can't really know this generically.  We can try to set the enable
bit to see if the device is capable of no-snoop, but that doesn't mean
it will use no-snoop.

>  - The IOMMU will let no-snoop through
>  - The platform will honor no-snoop
> 
> Only if all three are met we should allow the dangerous instruction in
> KVM, right?

We test at the IOMMU and assume that the IOMMU knowledge encompasses
whether the platform honors no-snoop (note for example how amd and arm
report true for IOMMU_CAP_CACHE_COHERENCY but seem to ignore the
IOMMU_CACHE flag).  We could probably use an iommu_group_for_each_dev
to test if any devices within the group are capable of no-snoop if the
IOMMU can't protect us, but at the time it didn't seem worthwhile.  I'm
still not sure if it is.
 
> Which brings me back to my original point - this is at least partially
> a device specific behavior. It depends on the content of the IOMMU
> page table, it depends if the device even supports no-snoop at all.
> 
> My guess is this works correctly for the mdev Intel kvmgt which
> probably somehow allows no-snoop DMA throught the mdev SW iommu
> mappings. (assuming I didn't miss a tricky iommu_map without
> IOMMU_CACHe set in the type1 code?)

This support existed before mdev, IIRC we needed it for direct
assignment of NVIDIA GPUs.
 
> But why is vfio-pci using it? Hmm?

Use the IOMMU to reduce hypervisor overhead, let the hypervisor learn
about it, ignore the subtleties of whether the device actually uses
no-snoop as imprecise and poor ROI given the apparent direction of
hardware.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯,
Alex

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