linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH 01/13] list: introduce speculative safe list_for_each

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Message-ID: <CAG48ez2fcxaESyXiB=+KMWy=JV3KH_2G78bTQEnzRSbYqg-zZw@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Sat, 19 Feb 2022 20:44:04 +0100
From:   Jann Horn <jannh@...gle.com>
To:     Jakob Koschel <jakobkoschel@...il.com>
Cc:     Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-arch@...r.kernel.org,
        Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Arnd Bergman <arnd@...db.de>,
        Andy Shevchenko <andriy.shevchenko@...ux.intel.com>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Kees Cook <keescook@...omium.org>,
        Mike Rapoport <rppt@...nel.org>,
        "Gustavo A. R. Silva" <gustavo@...eddedor.com>,
        Brian Johannesmeyer <bjohannesmeyer@...il.com>,
        Cristiano Giuffrida <c.giuffrida@...nl>,
        "Bos, H.J." <h.j.bos@...nl>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 01/13] list: introduce speculative safe list_for_each_entry()

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 7:48 PM Jakob Koschel <jakobkoschel@...il.com> wrote:
> list_for_each_entry() selects either the correct value (pos) or a safe
> value for the additional mispredicted iteration (NULL) for the list
> iterator.
> list_for_each_entry() calls select_nospec(), which performs
> a branch-less select.
>
> On x86, this select is performed via a cmov. Otherwise, it's performed
> via various shift/mask/etc. operations.
[...]
>  #define list_for_each_entry(pos, head, member)                         \
>         for (pos = list_first_entry(head, typeof(*pos), member);        \
> -            !list_entry_is_head(pos, head, member);                    \
> +           ({ bool _cond = !list_entry_is_head(pos, head, member);     \
> +            pos = select_nospec(_cond, pos, NULL); _cond; }); \
>              pos = list_next_entry(pos, member))

Actually I do have one ugly question about this:

Is NULL a good/safe choice here?

We already know that CPUs try very aggressively to do store-to-load
forwarding. Until now, my mental model of store-to-load forwarding was
basically: "The CPU has to guess whether the linear addresses will be
the same, and once it knows the linear addresses, it can verify
whether that guess was correct."

But of course that can't really be the whole mechanism, because many
architectures guarantee that if you access the same physical page
through multiple linear addresses, everything stays coherent. So I'm
wondering: Are there basically two stages of speculation based on
address guesses? A first stage where the CPU guesses whether the
linear addresses are the same, and a second stage where it assumes
that different linear addresses also map to different physical
addresses, or something like that?

And so, if we don't have a TLB entry for NULL, and we misspeculate
through a speculative write to an object of type A at NULL and then a
speculative read (at the same offset) from an object of type B at
NULL, will we get speculative type confusion through the nonexistent
object at NULL that lasts until either the branches are resolved or
the page walk for NULL reports back that there is no page at NULL?

(Also, it's been known for a long time that speculative accesses to
NULL can be a performance problem, too:
https://lwn.net/Articles/444336/)

So I'm wondering whether, on 64-bit architectures that have canonical
address bits, it would be safer and also reduce the amount of useless
pagetable walks to try to butcher up the canonical bits of the address
somehow so that the CPU can quickly see that the access is bogus,
without potentially having to do a pagetable walk first.