Message-ID: <CADQ0-X9pF7K8oYRJtV0gu6o7hq=YCiB=WmZLv-Obe3R5mH2LBw@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Mon, 20 Feb 2023 14:01:00 +0900
From:   Masahisa Kojima <masahisa.kojima@...aro.org>
To:     Sumit Garg <sumit.garg@...aro.org>
Cc:     Ard Biesheuvel <ardb@...nel.org>,
        Jens Wiklander <jens.wiklander@...aro.org>,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, op-tee@...ts.trustedfirmware.org,
        Ilias Apalodimas <ilias.apalodimas@...aro.org>,
        Johan Hovold <johan+linaro@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/2] introduce op-tee based EFI Runtime Variable Service

On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 at 20:12, Sumit Garg <sumit.garg@...aro.org> wrote:
>
> Thanks Ard for the detailed background information.
>
> On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 at 14:52, Ard Biesheuvel <ardb@...nel.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 6 Feb 2023 at 07:44, Sumit Garg <sumit.garg@...aro.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 16:25, Jens Wiklander <jens.wiklander@...aro.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > ..
> > > > StMM uses the MM protocol. It was originially using raw SMCs as a
> > > > conduit, but with the need for OP-TEE accessing RPMB that's not usable.
> > > > So instead we use OP-TEE MSG as a conduit. Seen from that perspective
> > > > we're only resuing something established instead of inventing something
> > > > new.
> > >
> > > Aren't we already adding PTA_STMM?
> > >
> > > Isn't the StMM specific to Arm as you already mentioned it was
> > > designed to specifically use raw SMCs? So if in future AMD TEE wants
> > > to implement EFI services, can we suggest they reuse the MM interface?
> > >
> > > I am not sure why we need to redirect EFI variables via MM interface
> > > communication buffers rather than directly using the TEE shared memory
> > > approach.
> > >
> > > Ard,
> > >
> > > Since you have better insights into how EFI runtime services have to
> > > be implemented, can you share your opinion here? It may be something I
> > > am missing here.
> > >
> >
> > Hello Sumit,
> >
> > I'm not sure I understand what you are asking me here. Allow me to
> > reiterate, apologies if I am stating the obvious:
> >
> > The EFI spec describes how the OS should expose the EFI runtime
> > services, but this is difficult to implement when access to the
> > underlying storage requires arbitration between accesses by the OS
> > itself and accesses made by the firmware.
>
> Agree.
>
> >
> > On systems where this issue is absent, the EFI runtime service
> > implementation for the variable services are very thin wrappers around
> > calls into standalone MM, which are not standardized, but are also not
> > ARM specific (standalone MM is being used on other architectures as
> > well, and 'classic' SMM uses the same protocol but dispatches the call
> > into the secure/SMM world in a different way)
> >
>
> Thanks for the clarification. So wouldn't it be better to have the
> standalone MM API reside here: drivers/firmware/efi/ and it should be
> exposed instead of efivars ops? As you mention below that there is
> nothing OP-TEE specific in there.
>
> > On systems where arbitration is needed, the standalone MM payload
> > needs to call back up into the OS to request access to the flash
> > storage. OP-TEE is a suitable vehicle for this, as it already does the
> > same thing for other reasons, and is already set up to dispatch SMC
> > calls that are taken to S-EL1.
>
> Agree.
>
> >
> > All of his is uncharted territory as far as the EFI spec is concerned,
> > as it occurs inside the StMM pseudo-API call, which itself normally
> > occurs inside the EFI runtime service call. Given that we cannot use
> > the latter (as the firmware does not provide a working get/setvariable
> > at OS runtime [0]), we need to provide some plumbing to call the StMM
> > pseudo-API directly, and expose it as an alternative efivars
> > implementation. (Note that this should mean that other implementations
> > of the StMM pseudo-API that do not require this arbitration may
> > potentially be accessed in the same way, although I don't see a reason
> > to use it like that.)
> >
> > If I am understanding you correctly, your question is whether OP-TEE
> > should expose the StMM pseudo-API in the usual way as well, and make
> > the OS rely on the usual discovery mechanisms etc to bind to it?
>
> No, I am trying to understand and generalize how an EFI runtime
> service ABI would look like among Linux kernel and a TEE. As you may
> be aware there are multiple TEE implementations and OP-TEE is one of
> them. So we should try to have a generic TEE client driver [1] rather
> than every other TEE implementation coming up with its own driver.
>
> >
> > If that is indeed your question: what purpose would that serve,
> > exactly?
>
> > In principle, the OS piece that implements efivars on top of
> > the StMM pseudo-API should not be specific to any TEE implementation
> > or API, and I think the fact that OP-TEE is the provider in this case
> > is an implementation detail.
>
> Yeah as I said above we should abstract the StMM pieces out of an
> OP-TEE driver and then the driver can be a generic TEE client driver
> which is just providing the underline vehicle (invoke commands and
> StMM buffer passing) as you described above.
>
> >
> > If you feel that OP-TEE should not expose this interface directly to
> > begin with, and rely on some marshalling layer to expose the StMM
> > pseudo-API on top of its ordinary exposed API, that is really an
> > OP-TEE internal matter (which I think is what you discussed with Jens
> > up in the thread?) Since StMM calls are defined in terms of SMC
> > instructions + arguments, this would require more code inside OP-TEE
> > to translate access to an API that it already exposes directly as
> > well, so I'm not sure what the gain would be.
>
> No I am not against OP-TEE exposing StMM stuff but rather the StMM
> stuff (buffer allocation etc.) being bundled into OP-TEE client
> driver.
>
> >
> > The thing to remember is that, even though the wrappers are very thin,
> > it is fundamentally the StMM API that is being exposed, not the EFI
> > runtime services API, and so whether or not a use case may materialize
> > that wants to expose a different API via efivars is out of scope here,
> > even if they are roughly shaped like get/setvariable.
> >
>
> Okay I get your point. If we want the StMM API to be exposed then I
> think the EFI subsystem is the suitable place for that.

Thank you for your comments.
In the next version, I move the StMM code under drivers/firmware/efi/stmm,
then 'optee' prefix is changed to 'tee' because StMM code does not contain
OP-TEE specific code.

Regards,
Masahisa Kojima

>
> [1] Although there can be minor differences allowed based on TEE
> implementation ID. You can consider it analogous to how we use
> multiple DT compatibles for a generic platform driver.
>
> -Sumit

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