linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH 1/1] tpm: disable hwrng for fTPM on some AMD designs

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <61b363bc-286a-535c-27da-0f52673768ad@amd.com>
Date:   Mon, 31 Jul 2023 22:04:14 -0500
From:   Mario Limonciello <mario.limonciello@....com>
To:     "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@...c4.com>,
        Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
Cc:     linux@...inikbrodowski.net, Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko@...nel.org>,
        Daniil Stas <daniil.stas@...teo.net>,
        James.Bottomley@...senpartnership.com,
        linux-integrity@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        regressions@...mhuis.info, stable@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/1] tpm: disable hwrng for fTPM on some AMD designs

On 7/31/23 18:40, Jason A. Donenfeld wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've been tracking this issue with Mario on various threads and
> bugzilla for a while now. My suggestion over at bugzilla was to just
> disable all current AMD fTPMs by bumping the check for a major version
> number, so that the hardware people can reenable it i it's ever fixed,
> but only if this is something that the hardware people would actually
> respect. As I understand it, Mario was going to check into it and see.
> Failing that, yea, just disabling hwrng on fTPM seems like a fine
> enough thing to do.
> 
> The reason I'm not too concerned about that is twofold:
> - Systems with fTPM all have RDRAND anyway, so there's no entropy problem.
> - fTPM *probably* uses the same random source as RDRAND -- the
> TRNG_OUT MMIO register -- so it's not really doing much more than what
> we already have available.

Yeah I have conversations ongoing about this topic, but also I concluded
your suspicion is correct.  They both get their values from the 
integrated CCP HW IP.

> 
> So this all seems fine. And Jarkko's patch seems more or less the
> straight forward way of disabling it. But with that said, in order of
> priority, maybe we should first try these:
> 
> 1) Adjust the version check to a major-place fTPM version that AMD's
> hardware team pinky swears will have this bug fixed. (Though, I can
> already imagine somebody on the list shouting, "we don't trust
> hardware teams to do anything with unreleased stuff!", which could be
> valid.)

I find it very likely the actual root cause is similar to what Linus 
suggested.  If that's the case I don't think the bug can be fixed
by just an fTPM fix but would rather require a BIOS fix.

This to me strengthens the argument to either not register fTPM as RNG 
in the first place or just use TPM for boot time entropy.

> 2) Remove the version check, but add some other query to detect AMD
> fTPM vs realTPM, and ban fTPM.

AMD doesn't make dTPMs, only fTPMs.  It's tempting to try to use 
TPM2_PT_VENDOR_TPM_TYPE, but this actually is a vendor specific value.

I don't see a reliable way in the spec to do this.

> - Remove the version check, and just check for AMD; this is Jarrko's patch.

I have a counter-proposal to Jarkko's patch attached.  This has two 
notable changes:

1) It only disables RNG generation in the case of having RDRAND or RDSEED.
2) It also matches Intel PTT.

I still do also think Linus' idea of TPMs only providing boot time 
entropy is worth weighing out.
View attachment "0001-tpm-Disable-RNG-for-fTPMs-on-SOCs-that-support-RDRAN.patch" of type "text/x-patch" (3665 bytes)