linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH v1 2/2] KVM: arm64: allow the VM to select DEVICE_* and NORMAL

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <20231012132045.GI3952@nvidia.com>
Date:   Thu, 12 Oct 2023 10:20:45 -0300
From:   Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@...dia.com>
To:     Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>
Cc:     Lorenzo Pieralisi <lpieralisi@...nel.org>,
        Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@....com>, ankita@...dia.com,
        maz@...nel.org, oliver.upton@...ux.dev, aniketa@...dia.com,
        cjia@...dia.com, kwankhede@...dia.com, targupta@...dia.com,
        vsethi@...dia.com, acurrid@...dia.com, apopple@...dia.com,
        jhubbard@...dia.com, danw@...dia.com,
        linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org, kvmarm@...ts.linux.dev,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 2/2] KVM: arm64: allow the VM to select DEVICE_* and
 NORMAL_NC for IO memory

On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 01:35:41PM +0100, Will Deacon wrote:

> > Failures containability is a property of the platform
> > and is independent from the memory type used for MMIO
> > device memory mappings (ie DEVICE_nGnRE memory type is
> > even more problematic than NormalNC in terms of containability
> > since eg aborts triggered on loads cannot be made synchronous,
> > which make them harder to contain); this means that,
> > regardless of the combined stage1+stage2 mappings a
> > platform is safe if and only if device transactions cannot trigger
> > uncontained failures; reworded, the default KVM device
> > stage 2 memory attributes play no role in making device
> > assignment safer for a given platform and therefore can
> > be relaxed.
> > 
> > For all these reasons, relax the KVM stage 2 device
> > memory attributes from DEVICE_nGnRE to NormalNC.
> 
> The reasoning above suggests to me that this should probably just be
> Normal cacheable, as that is what actually allows the guest to control
> the attributes. So what is the rationale behind stopping at Normal-NC?

I agree it would be very nice if the all the memory in the guest could
just be cachable and the guest could select everything.

However, I think Lorenzo over stated the argument. The off-list
discussion was focused on NormalNC for MMIO only. Nobody raised the
idea that cachable was safe from uncontained errors for MMIO.

I'm looking through the conversations and I wouldn't jump to
concluding that "cachable MMIO" is safe from uncontained failures.

Catalin has already raised a number of conerns in the other patch
about making actual "designed to be cachable memory" into KVM
cachable.

Regards,
Jason