linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH memory-model] docs: memory-barriers: Add note on compiler transformation and address deps

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <e9aa4f00-1db8-44a7-aa1f-122cdeeecc23@rowland.harvard.edu>
Date:   Sat, 21 Oct 2023 12:03:30 -0400
From:   Alan Stern <stern@...land.harvard.edu>
To:     "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...nel.org>
Cc:     Jonas Oberhauser <jonas.oberhauser@...weicloud.com>,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-arch@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-doc@...r.kernel.org, Andrea Parri <parri.andrea@...il.com>,
        Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com>,
        Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@...il.com>,
        David Howells <dhowells@...hat.com>,
        Jade Alglave <j.alglave@....ac.uk>,
        Luc Maranget <luc.maranget@...ia.fr>,
        Akira Yokosawa <akiyks@...il.com>,
        Daniel Lustig <dlustig@...dia.com>,
        Joel Fernandes <joel@...lfernandes.org>,
        Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH memory-model] docs: memory-barriers: Add note on compiler
 transformation and address deps

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 08:10:27AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 03:36:21PM +0200, Jonas Oberhauser wrote:
> > 
> > Am 10/20/2023 um 8:13 PM schrieb Paul E. McKenney:
> > > Fair enough in general, but I cannot promise to never confuse people.
> > > This is after all memory ordering.  And different people will be confused
> > > by different things.
> > 
> > You can say that twice. In fact I suspect this is not the first time you say
> > that :))
> 
> Easy for me to say, "that that that that that that that that that that"!

This reminds me of a sentence I once heard as an example of 
inscrutability.  Written without punctuation, it goes:

	Jack when Joe had had had had had had had had had had
	the teachers approval.

Properly punctuated, it says:

	Jack, when Joe had had "had", had had "had had"; "had had" had 
	the teacher's approval.

The context is supposed to be a comparison of the words two students 
used in their essays and how their teacher reacted.  It actually 
makes sense when read carefully.

Alan