Message-ID: <CABgObfaw4Byuzj5J3k48jdwT0HCKXLJNiuaA9H8Dtg+GOq==Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Wed, 1 Nov 2023 14:49:40 +0100
From:   Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@...hat.com>
To:     Sean Christopherson <seanjc@...gle.com>
Cc:     Xiaoyao Li <xiaoyao.li@...el.com>, Marc Zyngier <maz@...nel.org>,
        Oliver Upton <oliver.upton@...ux.dev>,
        Huacai Chen <chenhuacai@...nel.org>,
        Michael Ellerman <mpe@...erman.id.au>,
        Anup Patel <anup@...infault.org>,
        Paul Walmsley <paul.walmsley@...ive.com>,
        Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@...belt.com>,
        Albert Ou <aou@...s.berkeley.edu>,
        Alexander Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
        Christian Brauner <brauner@...nel.org>,
        "Matthew Wilcox (Oracle)" <willy@...radead.org>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, kvm@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org, kvmarm@...ts.linux.dev,
        linux-mips@...r.kernel.org, linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org,
        kvm-riscv@...ts.infradead.org, linux-riscv@...ts.infradead.org,
        linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, linux-mm@...ck.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, Xu Yilun <yilun.xu@...el.com>,
        Chao Peng <chao.p.peng@...ux.intel.com>,
        Fuad Tabba <tabba@...gle.com>,
        Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko@...nel.org>,
        Anish Moorthy <amoorthy@...gle.com>,
        David Matlack <dmatlack@...gle.com>,
        Yu Zhang <yu.c.zhang@...ux.intel.com>,
        Isaku Yamahata <isaku.yamahata@...el.com>,
        Mickaël Salaün <mic@...ikod.net>,
        Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@...e.cz>,
        Vishal Annapurve <vannapurve@...gle.com>,
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        Maciej Szmigiero <mail@...iej.szmigiero.name>,
        David Hildenbrand <david@...hat.com>,
        Quentin Perret <qperret@...gle.com>,
        Michael Roth <michael.roth@....com>,
        Wang <wei.w.wang@...el.com>,
        Liam Merwick <liam.merwick@...cle.com>,
        Isaku Yamahata <isaku.yamahata@...il.com>,
        "Kirill A . Shutemov" <kirill.shutemov@...ux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v13 17/35] KVM: Add transparent hugepage support for
 dedicated guest memory

On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 2:41 PM Sean Christopherson <seanjc@...gle.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Nov 01, 2023, Xiaoyao Li wrote:
> > On 10/31/2023 10:16 PM, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> > > On Tue, Oct 31, 2023, Xiaoyao Li wrote:
> > > > On 10/28/2023 2:21 AM, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> > > > > Extended guest_memfd to allow backing guest memory with transparent
> > > > > hugepages. Require userspace to opt-in via a flag even though there's no
> > > > > known/anticipated use case for forcing small pages as THP is optional,
> > > > > i.e. to avoid ending up in a situation where userspace is unaware that
> > > > > KVM can't provide hugepages.
> > > >
> > > > Personally, it seems not so "transparent" if requiring userspace to opt-in.
> > > >
> > > > People need to 1) check if the kernel built with TRANSPARENT_HUGEPAGE
> > > > support, or check is the sysfs of transparent hugepage exists; 2)get the
> > > > maximum support hugepage size 3) ensure the size satisfies the alignment;
> > > > before opt-in it.
> > > >
> > > > Even simpler, userspace can blindly try to create guest memfd with
> > > > transparent hugapage flag. If getting error, fallback to create without the
> > > > transparent hugepage flag.
> > > >
> > > > However, it doesn't look transparent to me.
> > >
> > > The "transparent" part is referring to the underlying kernel mechanism, it's not
> > > saying anything about the API.  The "transparent" part of THP is that the kernel
> > > doesn't guarantee hugepages, i.e. whether or not hugepages are actually used is
> > > (mostly) transparent to userspace.
> > >
> > > Paolo also isn't the biggest fan[*], but there are also downsides to always
> > > allowing hugepages, e.g. silent failure due to lack of THP or unaligned size,
> > > and there's precedent in the form of MADV_HUGEPAGE.
> > >
> > > [*] https://lore.kernel.org/all/84a908ae-04c7-51c7-c9a8-119e1933a189@redhat.com
> >
> > But it's different than MADV_HUGEPAGE, in a way. Per my understanding, the
> > failure of MADV_HUGEPAGE is not fatal, user space can ignore it and
> > continue.
> >
> > However, the failure of KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_ALLOW_HUGEPAGE is fatal, which leads
> > to failure of guest memfd creation.
>
> Failing KVM_CREATE_GUEST_MEMFD isn't truly fatal, it just requires different
> action from userspace, i.e. instead of ignoring the error, userspace could redo
> KVM_CREATE_GUEST_MEMFD with KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_ALLOW_HUGEPAGE=0.
>
> We could make the behavior more like MADV_HUGEPAGE, e.g. theoretically we could
> extend fadvise() with FADV_HUGEPAGE, or add a guest_memfd knob/ioctl() to let
> userspace provide advice/hints after creating a guest_memfd.  But I suspect that
> guest_memfd would be the only user of FADV_HUGEPAGE, and IMO a post-creation hint
> is actually less desirable.
>
> KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_ALLOW_HUGEPAGE will fail only if userspace didn't provide a
> compatible size or the kernel doesn't support THP.  An incompatible size is likely
> a userspace bug, and for most setups that want to utilize guest_memfd, lack of THP
> support is likely a configuration bug.  I.e. many/most uses *want* failures due to
> KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_ALLOW_HUGEPAGE to be fatal.
>
> > For current implementation, I think maybe KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_DESIRE_HUGEPAGE
> > fits better than KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_ALLOW_HUGEPAGE? or maybe *PREFER*?
>
> Why?  Verbs like "prefer" and "desire" aren't a good fit IMO because they suggest
> the flag is a hint, and hints are usually best effort only, i.e. are ignored if
> there is a fundamental incompatibility.
>
> "Allow" isn't perfect, e.g. I would much prefer a straight KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_USE_HUGEPAGES
> or KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_HUGEPAGES flag, but I wanted the name to convey that KVM doesn't
> (yet) guarantee hugepages.  I.e. KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_ALLOW_HUGEPAGE is stronger than
> a hint, but weaker than a requirement.  And if/when KVM supports a dedicated memory
> pool of some kind, then we can add KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_REQUIRE_HUGEPAGE.

I think that the current patch is fine, but I will adjust it to always
allow the flag,
and to make the size check even if !CONFIG_TRANSPARENT_HUGEPAGE.
If hugepages are not guaranteed, and (theoretically) you could have no
hugepage at all in the result, it's okay to get this result even if THP is not
available in the kernel.

Paolo

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