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Message-ID: <ZmcoMADenEFtuL6c@phenom.ffwll.local>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:22:08 +0200
From: Daniel Vetter <daniel@...ll.ch>
To: Christian König <christian.koenig@....com>
Cc: Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@...pe.ca>, Pavel Begunkov <asml.silence@...il.com>,
	David Wei <dw@...idwei.uk>, David Ahern <dsahern@...nel.org>,
	Mina Almasry <almasrymina@...gle.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org>, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-doc@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-alpha@...r.kernel.org, linux-mips@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-parisc@...r.kernel.org, sparclinux@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-trace-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-arch@...r.kernel.org,
	bpf@...r.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-media@...r.kernel.org, dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org,
	"David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com>,
	Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>, Paolo Abeni <pabeni@...hat.com>,
	Donald Hunter <donald.hunter@...il.com>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>,
	Richard Henderson <richard.henderson@...aro.org>,
	Ivan Kokshaysky <ink@...assic.park.msu.ru>,
	Matt Turner <mattst88@...il.com>,
	Thomas Bogendoerfer <tsbogend@...ha.franken.de>,
	"James E.J. Bottomley" <James.Bottomley@...senpartnership.com>,
	Helge Deller <deller@....de>, Andreas Larsson <andreas@...sler.com>,
	Jesper Dangaard Brouer <hawk@...nel.org>,
	Ilias Apalodimas <ilias.apalodimas@...aro.org>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
	Masami Hiramatsu <mhiramat@...nel.org>,
	Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@...icios.com>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>, Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...nel.org>,
	Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>,
	Andrii Nakryiko <andrii@...nel.org>,
	Martin KaFai Lau <martin.lau@...ux.dev>,
	Eduard Zingerman <eddyz87@...il.com>, Song Liu <song@...nel.org>,
	Yonghong Song <yonghong.song@...ux.dev>,
	John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>,
	KP Singh <kpsingh@...nel.org>, Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@...gle.com>,
	Hao Luo <haoluo@...gle.com>, Jiri Olsa <jolsa@...nel.org>,
	Steffen Klassert <steffen.klassert@...unet.com>,
	Herbert Xu <herbert@...dor.apana.org.au>,
	Willem de Bruijn <willemdebruijn.kernel@...il.com>,
	Shuah Khan <shuah@...nel.org>,
	Sumit Semwal <sumit.semwal@...aro.org>,
	Yunsheng Lin <linyunsheng@...wei.com>,
	Shailend Chand <shailend@...gle.com>,
	Harshitha Ramamurthy <hramamurthy@...gle.com>,
	Shakeel Butt <shakeel.butt@...ux.dev>,
	Jeroen de Borst <jeroendb@...gle.com>,
	Praveen Kaligineedi <pkaligineedi@...gle.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next v10 02/14] net: page_pool: create hooks for
 custom page providers

On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 02:38:18PM +0200, Christian König wrote:
> Am 10.06.24 um 14:16 schrieb Jason Gunthorpe:
> > On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 02:07:01AM +0100, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> > > On 6/10/24 01:37, David Wei wrote:
> > > > On 2024-06-07 17:52, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> > > > > IMHO it seems to compose poorly if you can only use the io_uring
> > > > > lifecycle model with io_uring registered memory, and not with DMABUF
> > > > > memory registered through Mina's mechanism.
> > > > By this, do you mean io_uring must be exclusively used to use this
> > > > feature?
> > > > 
> > > > And you'd rather see the two decoupled, so userspace can register w/ say
> > > > dmabuf then pass it to io_uring?
> > > Personally, I have no clue what Jason means. You can just as
> > > well say that it's poorly composable that write(2) to a disk
> > > cannot post a completion into a XDP ring, or a netlink socket,
> > > or io_uring's main completion queue, or name any other API.
> > There is no reason you shouldn't be able to use your fast io_uring
> > completion and lifecycle flow with DMABUF backed memory. Those are not
> > widly different things and there is good reason they should work
> > together.
> 
> Well there is the fundamental problem that you can't use io_uring to
> implement the semantics necessary for a dma_fence.
> 
> That's why we had to reject the io_uring work on DMA-buf sharing from Google
> a few years ago.
> 
> But this only affects the dma_fence synchronization part of DMA-buf, but
> *not* the general buffer sharing.

More precisely, it only impacts the userspace/data access implicit
synchronization part of dma-buf. For tracking buffer movements like on
invalidations/refault with a dynamic dma-buf importer/exporter I think the
dma-fence rules are acceptable. At least they've been for rdma drivers.

But the escape hatch is to (temporarily) pin the dma-buf, which is exactly
what direct I/O also does when accessing pages. So aside from the still
unsolved question on how we should account/track pinned dma-buf, there
shouldn't be an issue. Or at least I'm failing to see one.

And for synchronization to data access the dma-fence stuff on dma-buf is
anyway rather deprecated on the gpu side too, exactly because of all these
limitations. On the gpu side we've been moving to free-standing
drm_syncobj instead, but those are fairly gpu specific and any other
subsystem should be able to just reuse what they have already to signal
transaction completions.

Cheers, Sima

> 
> Regards,
> Christian.
> 
> > 
> > Pretending they are totally different just because two different
> > people wrote them is a very siloed view.
> > 
> > > The devmem TCP callback can implement it in a way feasible to
> > > the project, but it cannot directly post events to an unrelated
> > > API like io_uring. And devmem attaches buffers to a socket,
> > > for which a ring for returning buffers might even be a nuisance.
> > If you can't compose your io_uring completion mechanism with a DMABUF
> > provided backing store then I think it needs more work.
> > 
> > Jason
> 

-- 
Daniel Vetter
Software Engineer, Intel Corporation
http://blog.ffwll.ch

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