Message-ID: <dcef4f35-565b-4b10-b3b1-ee1406fb5a88@redhat.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2024 09:54:24 +0200
From: David Hildenbrand <david@...hat.com>
To: Ryan Roberts <ryan.roberts@....com>, Barry Song <baohua@...nel.org>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, Hugh Dickins
 <hughd@...gle.com>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>,
 Baolin Wang <baolin.wang@...ux.alibaba.com>, Lance Yang
 <ioworker0@...il.com>, Matthew Wilcox <willy@...radead.org>,
 Zi Yan <ziy@...dia.com>, Daniel Gomez <da.gomez@...sung.com>,
 linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-mm@...ck.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1] mm: shmem: Rename mTHP shmem counters

On 09.07.24 09:47, Ryan Roberts wrote:
> On 08/07/2024 21:50, David Hildenbrand wrote:
>> On 08.07.24 14:29, Ryan Roberts wrote:
>>> On 08/07/2024 12:36, Barry Song wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2024 at 11:24 PM Ryan Roberts <ryan.roberts@....com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The legacy PMD-sized THP counters at /proc/vmstat include
>>>>> thp_file_alloc, thp_file_fallback and thp_file_fallback_charge, which
>>>>> rather confusingly refer to shmem THP and do not include any other types
>>>>> of file pages. This is inconsistent since in most other places in the
>>>>> kernel, THP counters are explicitly separated for anon, shmem and file
>>>>> flavours. However, we are stuck with it since it constitutes a user ABI.
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently, commit 66f44583f9b6 ("mm: shmem: add mTHP counters for
>>>>> anonymous shmem") added equivalent mTHP stats for shmem, keeping the
>>>>> same "file_" prefix in the names. But in future, we may want to add
>>>>> extra stats to cover actual file pages, at which point, it would all
>>>>> become very confusing.
>>>>>
>>>>> So let's take the opportunity to rename these new counters "shmem_"
>>>>> before the change makes it upstream and the ABI becomes immutable.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I think this approach is much clearer. However, I recall
>>>> we discussed this
>>>> before [1], and it seems that inconsistency is a concern?
>>>
>>> Embarrassingly, I don't recall that converstation at all :-| but at least what I
>>> said then is consistent with what I've done in this patch.
>>>
>>> I think David's conclusion from that thread was to call them FILE_, and add both
>>> shmem and pagecache counts to those counters, meaning we can keep the same name
>>> as legacy THP counters. But those legacy THP counters only count shmem, and I
>>> don't think we would get away with adding pagecache counts to those at this
>>> point? (argument: they have been around for long time and there is a risk that
>>> user space relies on them and if they were to dramatically increase due to
>>> pagecache addition now that could break things). In that case, there is still
>>> inconsistency, but its worse; the names are consistent but the semantics are
>>> inconsistent.
>>>
>>> So my vote is to change to SHMEM_ as per this patch :)
>>
>> I also forgot most of the discussion, but these 3 legacy counters are really
>> only (currently) incremented for shmem. I think my idea was to keep everything
>> as FILE_ for now, maybe at some point make the pagecache also use them, and then
>> maybe have separate FILE_ + SHMEM_.
>>
>> But yeah, likely it's best to only have "shmem" here for now, because who knows
>> what we can actually change about the legacy counters. But it's always though
>> messing with legacy stuff that is clearly suboptimal ...
> 
> Sorry David, I've read your response a bunch of times and am still not
> completely sure what you are advocating for.
> 
> To make my proposal crystal clear, I think we should leave the legacy counters
> alone - neither change their name nor what they count (which is _only_ shmem). I
> think we should rename the new mTHP counters to "shmem" and have them continue
> to only count shmem. Then additionally, I think we should introduce new "file"
> mTHP counters that count the page cache allocations (that's a future set of
> patches, which I'm working on together with user controls to determine which
> mTHP sizes can be used by page cache).
> 
> As suggested by Barry, I propose to also improve the documentation for the
> legacy counters to make it clear that dispite their name being "file" they are
> actually counting "shmem". I'll do this for v2.

Yes, and please. Likely we should document for the legacy ones (if not 
already done) that they only track PMD-sized THPs.

> 
> David, would you support this approach? If so, I'd like to push this forwards
> asap so that it gets into v6.11 to avoid ever exposing the mthp counters with
> the "file" name.

Yes, sorry for not being clear.

-- 
Cheers,

David / dhildenb

Powered by blists - more mailing lists