linux-kernel - Re: [RFC] ipw2100 ipw2200 ps3_gelic rtl8712 --- Are we ready for wext cleanup?

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Message-ID: <a02e3e0b-8a9b-47d5-87cf-2c957a474daa@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2024 20:39:16 +0200
From: Philipp Hortmann <philipp.g.hortmann@...il.com>
To: Kalle Valo <kvalo@...nel.org>
Cc: linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, "David S . Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
 Alexandre Belloni <alexandre.belloni@...tlin.com>,
 Claudiu Beznea <claudiu.beznea@...on.dev>,
 Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@...ux-m68k.org>, Geoff Levand
 <geoff@...radead.org>, Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
 Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>, Jeff Johnson <quic_jjohnson@...cinc.com>,
 Johannes Berg <johannes@...solutions.net>,
 Larry Finger <Larry.Finger@...inger.net>,
 Nicolas Ferre <nicolas.ferre@...rochip.com>, Pavel Machek <pavel@....cz>,
 Stanislaw Gruszka <stf_xl@...pl>,
 Gregory Greenman <gregory.greenman@...el.com>,
 linuxppc-dev <linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org>,
 linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org, linux-staging@...ts.linux.dev,
 linux-wireless@...r.kernel.org, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
 Stefan Lippers-Hollmann <s.l-h@....de>
Subject: Re: [RFC] ipw2100 ipw2200 ps3_gelic rtl8712 --- Are we ready for wext
 cleanup?

On 14.10.24 11:32, Kalle Valo wrote:
> Philipp Hortmann <philipp.g.hortmann@...il.com> writes:
> 
>> origin of this question was the following patch series from Arnd Bergmann
>> [PATCH 00/10] Remove obsolete and orphaned wifi drivers
>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-staging/20231023131953.2876682-1-arnd@kernel.org/
>>
>> Here the remaining files that use iw_handler_def:
>> drivers/net/ethernet/toshiba/ps3_gelic_wireless.c:static const struct
>> iw_handler_def gelic_wl_wext_handler_def = {
>> drivers/net/wireless/intel/ipw2x00/ipw2100.c:static const struct
>> iw_handler_def ipw2100_wx_handler_def;
>> drivers/net/wireless/intel/ipw2x00/ipw2100.c:static const struct
>> iw_handler_def ipw2100_wx_handler_def = {
>> drivers/net/wireless/intel/ipw2x00/ipw2200.c:static const struct
>> iw_handler_def ipw_wx_handler_def = {
>> drivers/staging/rtl8712/os_intfs.c:     pnetdev->wireless_handlers =
>> (struct iw_handler_def *)
>> drivers/staging/rtl8712/rtl871x_ioctl.h:extern struct iw_handler_def
>> r871x_handlers_def;
>> drivers/staging/rtl8712/rtl871x_ioctl_linux.c:struct iw_handler_def
>> r871x_handlers_def = {
>>
>>
>> In this Email Greg writes over rtl8192e:
>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-staging/2024100810-payback-suds-8c15@gregkh/
>> "...
>> No staging driver should ever get in the way of api changes elsewhere in
>> the kernel, that's one of the rules of this part of the tree.  So from
>> my opinion, it's fine to delete it now.  It can always come back in a
>> new way later on.
>> ..."
>>
>> So it should not be an issue to remove rtl8712.
>>
>> Stefan Lippers-Hollmann was one year ago still using the ipw2200.
>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-staging/20231024014302.0a0b79b0@mir/
>>
>> Here my opinion why I think we should reconsider this:
>>
>> I really like to use old hardware. One of my computers is from trash
>> and the other one is bought for 50€ three years ago. But non of my
>> hardware is from before 2012. Do we as a community really need to
>> support hardware from 2003 in kernel 6.13 for WLAN that evolved so
>> rapidly? I do not think so.
>>
>> People around me are complaining that the 2,4GHz WLAN is difficult to
>> use because so many devices are using it. Such slow devices consume a
>> lot of time to send and receive the data and block therefore other
>> devices.
>>
>> The longterm kernels will still support this hardware for years.
>>
>> Please explain to our very high value resources (Maintainers,
>> Developers with wext and mac80211 expierience) that you cannot find
>> any other solution that is within technical possibility and budget
>> (USB WLAN Stick or exchange of WLAN module) and that they need to
>> invest their time for maintenance.
>> Here the example of invested time from Johannes Berg:
>> https://lore.kernel.org/all/20241007213525.8b2d52b60531.I6a27aaf30bded9a0977f07f47fba2bd31a3b3330@changeid/
>>
>> I cannot ask the Linux kernel community to support my test hardware
>> just because I bought it some time ago. Rather, I have to show that I
>> use it for private or business purposes on a regular basis and that I
>> cannot easily change.
>>
>> Using this hardware is security wise not state of the art as WPA3 is
>> not supported. We put so much effort into security. Why not here?
> 
> I didn't quite get what you are saying here, are you proposing that we
> should remove ancient drivers faster?
> 

Hi Kalle,

I propose to delete the last three drivers that are using wireless 
extension:
ps3_gelic_wireless
ipw2x00
rtl8712

Thanks for your response.

Bye Philipp