Message-ID: <4c143b85-063a-4413-a6ca-e9d80e26da96@marcan.st>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2025 18:41:43 +0900
From: Hector Martin <marcan@...can.st>
To: Simona Vetter <simona@...ll.ch>
Cc: Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@...dia.com>, Greg KH <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
 Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>, phasta@...nel.org,
 Christoph Hellwig <hch@....de>, Danilo Krummrich <dakr@...nel.org>,
 Miguel Ojeda <miguel.ojeda.sandonis@...il.com>,
 Abdiel Janulgue <abdiel.janulgue@...il.com>, daniel.almeida@...labora.com,
 aliceryhl@...gle.com, robin.murphy@....com, rust-for-linux@...r.kernel.org,
 Miguel Ojeda <ojeda@...nel.org>, Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor@...il.com>,
 Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com>, Gary Guo <gary@...yguo.net>,
 Björn Roy Baron <bjorn3_gh@...tonmail.com>,
 Benno Lossin <benno.lossin@...ton.me>,
 Andreas Hindborg <a.hindborg@...nel.org>, Trevor Gross <tmgross@...ch.edu>,
 Valentin Obst <kernel@...entinobst.de>,
 open list <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
 Marek Szyprowski <m.szyprowski@...sung.com>, airlied@...hat.com,
 "open list:DMA MAPPING HELPERS" <iommu@...ts.linux.dev>,
 DRI Development <dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org>
Subject: Re: On community influencing (was Re: [PATCH v8 2/2] rust: add dma
 coherent allocator abstraction.)

On 2025/02/06 3:52, Simona Vetter wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 04, 2025 at 03:46:14AM +0900, Hector Martin wrote:
>> Adding Linus
>>
>> My 2c: If Linus doesn't pipe up with an authoritative answer to this
>> thread, Miguel and the other Rust folks should just merge this series
>> once it is reviewed and ready, ignoring Christoph's overt attempt at
>> sabotaging the project. If Linus pulls it, what Christoph says doesn't
>> matter. If Linus doesn't pull it, the R4L project is essentially dead
>> until either Linus or Christoph make a move. Everything else is beating
>> around the bush.
>>
>> Rust folks: Please don't waste your time and mental cycles on drama like
>> this. It's not worth your time. Either Linus likes it, or he doesn't.
>> Everything else is distractions orchestrated by a subset of saboteur
>> maintainers who are trying to demoralize you until you give up, because
>> they know they're going to be on the losing side of history sooner or
>> later. No amount of sabotage from old entrenched maintainers is going to
>> stop the world from moving forward towards memory-safe languages.
>>
>> FWIW, in my opinion, the "cancer" comment from Christoph would be enough
>> to qualify for Code-of-Conduct action, but I doubt anything of the sort
>> will happen.
> 
> Yeah no.
> 
> https://chaos.social/@sima/113942119012147959
> 
> This was about you, because typing a proper answer takes a bit longer. It
> was also about your toots on fedi, like this:
> 
> https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/113941468353031993
> 
> And "haha it's only a joke" does not work with your public profile and following.
> 
> I do understand the frustration and temptation to just burn it all to the
> ground, head the call of the sirens, or maybe for me more pick up goat
> farming in the Swiss Alps. But you can't have it both and expect to also
> be part of and contribute to the same community. And personally I don't
> appreciate getting drenched in gasoline while I'm trying to quench flames
> on the ground.
> 
> And this isn't the first time or the second, by now it's a pretty clear
> pattern over some years. And with the first I could explain why you react
> like that and you had my full understanding, but eventually that runs a
> bit thin as an excuse.  Now I'm left with the unlikely explanation that
> you just like thundering in as the cavalry, fashionably late, maximally
> destructive, because it entertains the masses on fedi or reddit or
> wherever. I have no idea what you're trying to achieve here, I really
> don't get it, but I am for sure fed up dealing with the fallout.
> 
> Cheers, Sima

Since we're into complaining about social media posts on the list now,
I'm going to link one of yours:

https://chaos.social/@sima/113961496955043901

An R4L maintainer quit after multiple rounds of hostility, including
some completely unacceptable public comments bordering on downright
harassment from tytso, a situation which was widely publicized.

If, according to you, that's "shockingly smooth" with "no outsized
drama" other than "what I stirred up" (I guess you also missed the whole
LWN post about this thread before I posted anything on Fedi? That's how
I even found out about this), then I'm glad I'm disengaging with this
community. The Stockholm syndrome and utter denial is palpable.

I thought I could work with you on these issues; I don't know what
happened over the past year since we last had a private conversation
about this, but clearly you've changed your mind.

Thus, as you kindly requested of me in social media,

https://chaos.social/@sima/113961283260455876

I will now proceed to fuck off. Good luck.

- Hector

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