Message-ID: <c5a49bcb-45cf-4295-80e0-c4b07083df00@marcan.st>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2025 19:20:03 +0900
From: Hector Martin <marcan@...can.st>
To: Simona Vetter <simona@...ll.ch>
Cc: Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@...dia.com>, Greg KH <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
 Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>, phasta@...nel.org,
 Christoph Hellwig <hch@....de>, Danilo Krummrich <dakr@...nel.org>,
 Miguel Ojeda <miguel.ojeda.sandonis@...il.com>,
 Abdiel Janulgue <abdiel.janulgue@...il.com>, daniel.almeida@...labora.com,
 aliceryhl@...gle.com, robin.murphy@....com, rust-for-linux@...r.kernel.org,
 Miguel Ojeda <ojeda@...nel.org>, Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor@...il.com>,
 Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com>, Gary Guo <gary@...yguo.net>,
 Björn Roy Baron <bjorn3_gh@...tonmail.com>,
 Benno Lossin <benno.lossin@...ton.me>,
 Andreas Hindborg <a.hindborg@...nel.org>, Trevor Gross <tmgross@...ch.edu>,
 Valentin Obst <kernel@...entinobst.de>,
 open list <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
 Marek Szyprowski <m.szyprowski@...sung.com>, airlied@...hat.com,
 "open list:DMA MAPPING HELPERS" <iommu@...ts.linux.dev>,
 DRI Development <dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org>
Subject: Re: On community influencing (was Re: [PATCH v8 2/2] rust: add dma
 coherent allocator abstraction.)



On 2025/02/07 18:41, Hector Martin wrote:
> On 2025/02/06 3:52, Simona Vetter wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 04, 2025 at 03:46:14AM +0900, Hector Martin wrote:
>>> Adding Linus
>>>
>>> My 2c: If Linus doesn't pipe up with an authoritative answer to this
>>> thread, Miguel and the other Rust folks should just merge this series
>>> once it is reviewed and ready, ignoring Christoph's overt attempt at
>>> sabotaging the project. If Linus pulls it, what Christoph says doesn't
>>> matter. If Linus doesn't pull it, the R4L project is essentially dead
>>> until either Linus or Christoph make a move. Everything else is beating
>>> around the bush.
>>>
>>> Rust folks: Please don't waste your time and mental cycles on drama like
>>> this. It's not worth your time. Either Linus likes it, or he doesn't.
>>> Everything else is distractions orchestrated by a subset of saboteur
>>> maintainers who are trying to demoralize you until you give up, because
>>> they know they're going to be on the losing side of history sooner or
>>> later. No amount of sabotage from old entrenched maintainers is going to
>>> stop the world from moving forward towards memory-safe languages.
>>>
>>> FWIW, in my opinion, the "cancer" comment from Christoph would be enough
>>> to qualify for Code-of-Conduct action, but I doubt anything of the sort
>>> will happen.
>>
>> Yeah no.
>>
>> https://chaos.social/@sima/113942119012147959
>>
>> This was about you, because typing a proper answer takes a bit longer. It
>> was also about your toots on fedi, like this:
>>
>> https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/113941468353031993
>>
>> And "haha it's only a joke" does not work with your public profile and following.
>>
>> I do understand the frustration and temptation to just burn it all to the
>> ground, head the call of the sirens, or maybe for me more pick up goat
>> farming in the Swiss Alps. But you can't have it both and expect to also
>> be part of and contribute to the same community. And personally I don't
>> appreciate getting drenched in gasoline while I'm trying to quench flames
>> on the ground.
>>
>> And this isn't the first time or the second, by now it's a pretty clear
>> pattern over some years. And with the first I could explain why you react
>> like that and you had my full understanding, but eventually that runs a
>> bit thin as an excuse.  Now I'm left with the unlikely explanation that
>> you just like thundering in as the cavalry, fashionably late, maximally
>> destructive, because it entertains the masses on fedi or reddit or
>> wherever. I have no idea what you're trying to achieve here, I really
>> don't get it, but I am for sure fed up dealing with the fallout.
>>
>> Cheers, Sima
> 
> Since we're into complaining about social media posts on the list now,
> I'm going to link one of yours:
> 
> https://chaos.social/@sima/113961496955043901
> 
> An R4L maintainer quit after multiple rounds of hostility, including
> some completely unacceptable public comments bordering on downright
> harassment from tytso, a situation which was widely publicized.
> 
> If, according to you, that's "shockingly smooth" with "no outsized
> drama" other than "what I stirred up" (I guess you also missed the whole
> LWN post about this thread before I posted anything on Fedi? That's how
> I even found out about this), then I'm glad I'm disengaging with this
> community. The Stockholm syndrome and utter denial is palpable.
> 
> I thought I could work with you on these issues; I don't know what
> happened over the past year since we last had a private conversation
> about this, but clearly you've changed your mind.
> 
> Thus, as you kindly requested of me in social media,
> 
> https://chaos.social/@sima/113961283260455876
> 
> I will now proceed to fuck off. Good luck.

Oh, and one last thing. I've heard that, in whatever backroom
conversations you've been having about this situation, there has
apparently been a belief, explicit or implicit, that I am in any way
employed to work on the Linux kernel.

Unlike most people in this thread, I don't enjoy the luxury of a cushy
tech job that pays me to deal with this community. I am supported
exclusively by donations, which incidentally, have been steadily
*de*creasing since the start of the Asahi Linux project. The project has
zero corporate sponsorship.

And I do believe the fact that essentially all high-level Linux kernel
maintainers and contributors are paid by corporations to do it is a
major factor that has caused this community to become wildly out of
touch with what it means to be a community FOSS project.

- Hector

Powered by blists - more mailing lists