linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH v3 00/13] Clavis LSM

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Message-ID: <CAHC9VhTsZntLdGBV7=4suauS+rzSQv1O4UAoGcy2vEB02wRkoA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 17:22:22 -0500
From: Paul Moore <paul@...l-moore.com>
To: Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.ibm.com>
Cc: Eric Snowberg <eric.snowberg@...cle.com>, David Howells <dhowells@...hat.com>, 
	Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko@...nel.org>, 
	"open list:SECURITY SUBSYSTEM" <linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org>, 
	David Woodhouse <dwmw2@...radead.org>, 
	"herbert@...dor.apana.org.au" <herbert@...dor.apana.org.au>, "davem@...emloft.net" <davem@...emloft.net>, 
	Ard Biesheuvel <ardb@...nel.org>, James Morris <jmorris@...ei.org>, 
	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@...lyn.com>, Roberto Sassu <roberto.sassu@...wei.com>, 
	Dmitry Kasatkin <dmitry.kasatkin@...il.com>, Mickaël Salaün <mic@...ikod.net>, 
	"casey@...aufler-ca.com" <casey@...aufler-ca.com>, Stefan Berger <stefanb@...ux.ibm.com>, 
	"ebiggers@...nel.org" <ebiggers@...nel.org>, Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@...radead.org>, 
	open list <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, 
	"keyrings@...r.kernel.org" <keyrings@...r.kernel.org>, 
	"linux-crypto@...r.kernel.org" <linux-crypto@...r.kernel.org>, 
	"linux-efi@...r.kernel.org" <linux-efi@...r.kernel.org>, 
	"linux-integrity@...r.kernel.org" <linux-integrity@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 00/13] Clavis LSM

On Thu, Feb 27, 2025 at 3:41 PM Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.ibm.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2025-01-06 at 17:15 +0000, Eric Snowberg wrote:
> > > On Jan 5, 2025, at 8:40 PM, Paul Moore <paul@...l-moore.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 11:48 PM Paul Moore <paul@...l-moore.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Regardless, back to Clavis ... reading quickly through the cover
> > > > letter again, I do somewhat wonder if this isn't better integrated
> > > > into the keyring proper; have you talked to both David and Jarkko
> > > > about this?
> > >
> > > I realize I should probably expand on my thinking a bit, especially
> > > since my comment a while regarding LSMs dedicated to enforcing access
> > > control on keys is what was given as a reason for making Clavis a LSM.
> > >
> > > I still stand by my comment from over a year ago that I see no reason
> > > why we couldn't support a LSM that enforces access controls on
> > > keyrings/keys.  What gives me pause with the Clavis LSM is that so
> > > much of Clavis is resident in the keyrings themselves, e.g. Clavis
> > > policy ACLs and authorization keys, that it really feels like it
> > > should be part of the keys subsystem and not a LSM.  Yes, existing
> > > LSMs do have LSM specific data that resides outside of the LSM and in
> > > an object's subsystem, but that is usually limited to security
> > > identifiers and similar things, not the LSM's security policy.
>
> Hi Jarkko, David,
>
> Both Paul's and my main concerns with this patch set is storing policy in the
> keyring.  We would appreciate your chiming in here about storing key policy in
> the keyring itself.

I'd still also like to see some discussion about moving towards the
addition of keyrings oriented towards usage instead of limiting
ourselves to keyrings that are oriented on the source of the keys.
Perhaps I'm missing some important detail which makes this
impractical, but it seems like an obvious improvement to me and would
go a long way towards solving some of the problems that we typically
see with kernel keys.

-- 
paul-moore.com