linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH V1] watchdog: Add boot-time selection for hard lockup detector

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Message-ID: <aOdbRI3BaMCbyvtv@mdev>
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2025 14:50:44 +0800
From: Jinchao Wang <wangjinchao600@...il.com>
To: Ian Rogers <irogers@...gle.com>
Cc: Doug Anderson <dianders@...omium.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Namhyung Kim <namhyung@...nel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
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Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH V1] watchdog: Add boot-time selection for hard lockup
 detector

On Tue, Oct 07, 2025 at 05:11:52PM -0700, Ian Rogers wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2025 at 3:58 PM Doug Anderson <dianders@...omium.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 7, 2025 at 3:45 PM Ian Rogers <irogers@...gle.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2025 at 2:43 PM Doug Anderson <dianders@...omium.org> wrote:
> > > ...
> > > > The buddy watchdog was pretty much following the conventions that were
> > > > already in the code: that the hardlockup detector (whether backed by
> > > > perf or not) was essentially called the "nmi watchdog". There were a
> > > > number of people that were involved in reviews and I don't believe
> > > > suggesting creating a whole different mechanism for enabling /
> > > > disabling the buddy watchdog was never suggested.
> > >
> > > I suspect they lacked the context that 1 in the nmi_watchdog is taken
> > > to mean there's a perf event in use by the kernel with implications on
> > > how group events behave. This behavior has been user
> > > visible/advertised for 9 years. I don't doubt that there were good
> > > intentions by PowerPC's watchdog and in the buddy watchdog patches in
> > > using the file, that use will lead to spurious warnings and behaviors
> > > by perf.
> > >
> > > My points remain:
> > > 1) using multiple files regresses perf's performance;
> > > 2) the file name by its meaning is wrong;
> > > 3) old perf tools on new kernels won't behave as expected wrt warnings
> > > and metrics because the meaning of the file has changed.
> > > Using a separate file for each watchdog resolves this. It seems that
> > > there wasn't enough critical mass for getting this right to have
> > > mattered before, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't get it right now.
> >
> > Presumably your next steps then are to find someone to submit a patch
> > and try to convince others on the list that this is a good idea. The
> > issue with perf has been known for a while now and I haven't seen any
> > patches. As I've said, I won't stand in the way if everyone else
> > agrees, but given that I'm still not convinced I'm not going to author
> > any patches for this myself.
> 
> Writing >1 of:
> ```
> static struct ctl_table watchdog_hardlockup_sysctl[] = {
> {
> .procname       = "nmi_watchdog",
> .data = &watchdog_hardlockup_user_enabled,
> .maxlen = sizeof(int),
> .mode = 0444,
> .proc_handler   = proc_nmi_watchdog,
> .extra1 = SYSCTL_ZERO,
> .extra2 = SYSCTL_ONE,
> },
> };
> ```
> is an exercise of copy-and-paste, if you need me to do the copy and
> pasting then it is okay.
Can we get whether a perf event is already in use directly from the
perf subsystem? There may be (or will be) other kernel users of
perf_event besides the NMI watchdog. Exposing that state from the perf
side would avoid coupling unrelated users through nmi_watchdog and
similar features.

> 
> Thanks,
> Ian
> 
> 
> > -Doug
> >

-- 
Jinchao