linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH RFC] ima: Fallback to a ctime guard without i

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Message-ID: <b43a2f0bea04574186d792a94879c0b1b95e0e86.camel@linux.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2026 19:45:37 -0500
From: Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.ibm.com>
To: Frederick Lawler <fred@...udflare.com>
Cc: Roberto Sassu <roberto.sassu@...wei.com>,
        Dmitry Kasatkin	
 <dmitry.kasatkin@...il.com>,
        Eric Snowberg <eric.snowberg@...cle.com>,
        Paul
 Moore <paul@...l-moore.com>, James Morris <jmorris@...ei.org>,
        "Serge E.
 Hallyn"	 <serge@...lyn.com>,
        "Darrick J. Wong" <djwong@...nel.org>,
        Christian Brauner	 <brauner@...nel.org>,
        Josef Bacik
 <josef@...icpanda.com>, Jeff Layton	 <jlayton@...nel.org>,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-integrity@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org, kernel-team@...udflare.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC] ima: Fallback to a ctime guard without i_version
 updates

On Mon, 2026-01-05 at 17:09 -0600, Frederick Lawler wrote:
> Hi Mimi,
> 
> On Mon, Jan 05, 2026 at 05:15:15PM -0500, Mimi Zohar wrote:
> > On Mon, 2025-12-29 at 11:52 -0600, Frederick Lawler wrote:
> > > Since commit 1cf7e834a6fb ("xfs: switch to multigrain timestamps"), IMA
> > > is no longer able to correctly track inode.i_version due to the struct
> > > kstat.change_cookie no longer containing an updated i_version.
> > > 
> > > Introduce a fallback mechanism for IMA that instead tracks a
> > > integrity_ctime_guard() in absence of or outdated i_version
> > > for stacked file systems.
> > 
> > Thanks, Frederick.
> > 
> > Instead of using the new function name integrity_ctime_guard() to describe the
> > change, please describe the change in words.  Perhaps something like: rely on
> > the inode's ctime to detect a file data or metadata change.
> > 
> 
> Sure thing, I'll change for the v1.
> 
> > The purpose of generating a ctime guard value, as opposed to using the tv_sec
> > and tv_nsec, I assume is to minimize the amount of memory being saved in the
> > iint.
> 
> This was Jeff's suggestion. It does serve the purpose on saving
> some memory, but also has some value in the event nsec or sec is zero'd.
> It just needs to be different enough from the last cache'd evaluation.

All of this needs to be described in the patch description and, probably, a
comment before the function.
> 
> > 
> > > 
> > > EVM is left alone since it mostly cares about the backing inode.
> > > 
> > > Link: https://lore.kernel.org/all/aTspr4_h9IU4EyrR@CMGLRV3
> > > Fixes: 1cf7e834a6fb ("xfs: switch to multigrain timestamps")
> > > Suggested-by: Jeff Layton <jlayton@...nel.org>
> > > Signed-off-by: Frederick Lawler <fred@...udflare.com>
> > > ---
> > > The motivation behind this was that file systems that use the
> > > cookie to set the i_version for stacked file systems may still do so.
> > > Then add in the ctime_guard as a fallback if there's a detected change.
> > > The assumption is that the ctime will be different if the i_version is
> > > different anyway for non-stacked file systems.
> > 
> > Agreed. This patch inverts the i_version test to return immediately if the
> > i_version hasn't changed and then checks the ctime guard value.  Is the ctime
> > guard value test simply a performance improvement?
> > 
> 
> Kinda. The thought was to make already-audited files that have an
> unchanged i_version since last audit succeed early.
> 
> Stacking tempfs on XFS for instance, would incur the stat cost each
> evaluation, since the cookie that used to set the i_version on
> evaluation with XFS on 6.12, is now always setting it to zero since 6.13.

So without this patch, there aren't any missing measurements, verifications, or
audit records.  Please clarify in the patch description that this is a
performance improvement.

> 
> > > 
> > > I'm not too pleased with passing in struct file* to
> > > integrity_inode_attrs_changed() since EVM doesn't currently use
> > > that for now, but I couldn't come up with another idea to get the
> > > stat without coming up with a new stat function to accommodate just
> > > the file path, fully separate out IMA/EVM checks, or lastly add stacked
> > > file system support to EVM (which doesn't make much sense to me
> > > at the moment).
> > > 
> > > I plan on adding in self test infrastructure for the v1, but I would
> > > like to get some early feedback on the approach first.
> > 
> > I really appreciate your adding a self test.
> > 
> 
> I was poking around last week at some testing platforms, and instead of
> adding to kernel sefltests & setup a VM etc..., to instead add to 
> Linux Test Project (LTP) if that's fine?

That's perfect.

> 
> In any case, I can add my test snippet to v1, so you have something
> to review with the patch. That snippet works the same on 6.12 as it
> does on 6.19 with this patch.

Thanks!