Date:	Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:24:37 -0400
From:	Alan Ott <alan@...nal11.us>
To:	Marcel Holtmann <marcel@...tmann.org>
Cc:	David S Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Jiri Kosina <jkosina@...e.cz>,
	Michael Poole <mdpoole@...ilus.org>,
	Bastien Nocera <hadess@...ess.net>,
	Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@...il.com>,
	linux-bluetooth@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	netdev@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/1] Bluetooth: hidp: Add support for hidraw     HIDIOCGFEATURE     and HIDIOCSFEATURE

On 07/09/2010 01:33 PM, Marcel Holtmann wrote:
>>>>>>> I looked at this and I am bit worried that this should not be done in
>>>>>>> this detail in the HIDP driver. Essentially HIDP is a pure transport
>>>>>>> driver. It should not handle all these details. Can we make this a bit
>>>>>>> easier for the transport drivers to support such features?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>> I put these changes (most notably the addition of hidp_get_raw_report())
>>>>>> in hidp because that's where the parallel function
>>>>>> hidp_output_raw_report() was already located. I figured the input should
>>>>>> go with the output. That said, if there's a better place for both of
>>>>>> them (input and output) to go, let me know where you think it should be,
>>>>>> and I'll get them moved into the proper spot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure what you mean about HIDP being a pure transport driver.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>> what is usb-hid.ko doing here? I would expect a bunch of code
>>>>> duplication with minor difference between USB and Bluetooth.
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>> usbhid doesn't have a lot of code for hidraw. Two functions are involved:
>>>>        usbhid_output_raw_report()
>>>>            - calls usb_control_msg() with Get_Report
>>>>        usbhid_get_raw_report()
>>>>            - calls usb_control_msg() with Set_Report
>>>>                OR
>>>>            - calls usb_interrupt_msg() on the Ouput pipe.
>>>>
>>>> This is of course easier than bluetooth because usb_control_msg() is
>>>> synchronous, even when requesting reports, mostly because of the nature
>>>> of USB, where the request and response are part of the same transfer.
>>>>
>>>> For Bluetooth, it's a bit more complicated since the kernel treats it
>>>> more like a networking interface (and indeed it is). My understanding is
>>>> that to make a synchronous transfer in bluetooth, one must:
>>>>        - send the request packet
>>>>        - block (wait_event_*())
>>>>        - when the response is received in the input handler, wake_up_*().
>>>>
>>>> There's not really any code duplication, mostly because initiating
>>>> synchronous USB transfers (input and output) is easy (because of the
>>>> usb_*_msg() functions), while making synchronous Bluetooth transfers
>>>> must be done manually. If there's a nice, convenient, synchronous
>>>> function in Bluetooth similar to usb_control_msg() that I've missed,
>>>> then let me know, as it would simplify this whole thing.
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> there is not and I don't think we ever get one. My question here was
>>> more in the direction why HID core is doing these synchronously in the
>>> first place. Especially since USB can do everything async as well.
>>>        
>> I'm open to suggestions. The way I see it is from a user space
>> perspective. With Get_Feature being on an ioctl(), I don't see any clean
>> way to do it other than synchronously. Other operating systems (I can
>> say for sure Windows, Mac OS X, and FreeBSD) handle Get/Set Feature the
>> same way (synchronously) from user space.
>>
>> You seem to be proposing an asynchronous interface. What would that look
>> like from user space?
>>      
> not necessarily from user space, but at least from HID core to HIDP and
> usb-hid transports. At least that is what I would expect, Jiri?
>
> Regards
>
> Marcel
>    

Hi Marcel,

So it sounds like you're mostly concerned about the sleeping (blocking), 
and where is the _right_ place for it to occur. It seems like it could 
either occur in hid/hidraw.c or in hidp/core.c. If it were to occur in 
hid/hidraw.c, what then would get passed back and forth between the 
bluetooth/hidp and hidraw?

Maybe something like the following:
     hidraw:
         - get_report() (hypothetical)
             - calls a hypothetical hidp_initiate_get_report(), which:
                 - sends the report request and returns immediately.
             - wait for response

     hidp:
         - whenever a report is returned, it calls back to hidraw,
           which wakes up the get_report() thread if
           the data matches the report being waited on.

For this to work, we'd need 2 more function pointers in struct hid_device:
     1. a way for hidp to call back into hidraw.
     2. a pointer for hidp_initiate_get_report().

These of course would be in addition to the ones that USB already uses 
(like hid_get_raw_report()), and would cause USB and Bluetooth to use 
different APIs to each transport.

Of course, there could be commonality if we used the asynchronous USB 
APIs like you suggested, although, I'm not sure I see the benefit of 
making the USB part more complicated. The USB part (hid/usb/hid-core.c) 
is currently _very_ simple.

It seems like we have two options:
1. Move to asynchronous APIs in USB and Bluetooth. This involves:
     a. Move to asynchronous APIs in hid/usbhid/hid-core.c
     b. Adding support into hid/hidraw.c to do the waiting.
     c. Changing bluetooth/hidp to be asynchronous in nature.

2. Keep using synchronous USB APIs.
     a. hid/usbhid/hid-core remains really simple
     b. hid/hidraw.c remains really simple
     c. bluetooth/hidp has some complexity

I'd argue that the complexity of bluetooth/hidp isn't really that 
complex, and further, it's mostly isolated to one (new) function (that's 
where the wait_event_*() is).

Further, if we did option #2, some piece of code has to determine 
whether to wake up the blocking thread (which would then be in 
hid/hidraw.c). This piece of code would be notified for every packet 
received from Bluetooth to decide whether it should wake up the sleeping 
thread, and would have to have bluetooth-specific code in it (something 
like the block which calls wake_up_interruptible() in my patch). It 
seems like this code would _have_ to be in hidp.

 From a design standpoint, I can't see how it makes sense to push this 
code into hid/hidraw.c when it is bluetooth-specific. Further, I can't 
see how it makes sense to do the USB portion the hard way, when the 
current implementation is so compact and non-error-prone.

Clients to hidraw provide two functions with very simple interfaces, one 
for outputting reports, and one for getting (requesting and receiving) 
reports. I think having clean interfaces between modules has a lot of value.

All that said, I'm always open to better ideas. Maybe you have a better 
design idea that you can enlighten me with.

Alan.



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