Date:	Wed, 9 May 2012 23:32:08 +0000
From:	Arvid Brodin <Arvid.Brodin@...n.com>
To:	Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@...tta.com>
CC:	"netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Netlink for kernel<->user space communication?

On 2012-05-08 00:33, Stephen Hemminger wrote:
> On Mon, 7 May 2012 18:43:23 +0000
> Arvid Brodin <Arvid.Brodin@...n.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:57:55 -0700
>> Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@...xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 23:52:34 +0000
>>> Arvid Brodin <Arvid.Brodin@...xxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi.
>>>>
>>>> I'm writing a kernel driver for the HSR protocol, a standard for high availability
>>>> networks. I want to send messages from the kernel to user space about broken network
>>>> links. I also want user space to be able to ask the kernel about its view of the status of
>>>> nodes on the network.
>>>>
>>>> Netlink seems like a good tool for this. (Is it?)
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> But do I use raw netlink? (Described here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7356 - but
>>>> this seems a bit out of date, the kernel API description differs from today's kernel
>>>> implementation.)
>>>
>>> No. Your driver probably looks like a device so you should be
>>> using rtnetlink messages.
>>
>> I'm already using rtnetlink messages to add and remove my device, which works fine (see
>> e.g. http://www.spinics.net/lists/netdev/msg192817.html - although I didn't think it
>> meaningful to include the iproute2 patch here, until the kernel part is ready).
>>
>> The protocol specifies transmission of "supervision frames" every 2 seconds, e.g. to check
>> link integrity. Every such frame should be received from two directions in the ring - if
>> only one is received, then there is a link problem.
> 
> Why not just manipulate the carrier or operational state (see Documentation/networking/operstate)
> and use the existing notification on link changes. If you don't get heartbeat then change
> the state of the device to indicate lower device is down with set_operstate(), the necessary
> link everts propgate back as netlink events.

With HSR, all nodes in the network ring can detect a link problem anywhere in the ring. So
I need a way to communicate link problems that does not concern the host's devices at all,
but rather the state of the network as a whole. A typical message might say "Frames from
node 01:23:45:67:89:AB is only received over Slave Interface 1!" This indicates a problem
since all frames should be received over both slave interfaces. The broken link can be
anywhere between this node and the indicated node. If user space is aware of the network
topology, it can figure out exactly where the damage is by looking at which nodes' frames
are received over which slave interface.

(Thanks for the operstates info though, I hadn't discovered IF_OPER_LOWERLAYERDOWN! I will
use it to indicate a local slave is down.)


>> I'd like to notify user space about every such occurence. Is there a rtnetlink message
>> type that fits this? The stuff in rtnetlink.h seems to be mostly concerned with specific
>> user space commands (there is something called RTNLGRP_NOTIFY but I couldn't find any
>> instances of it being used in the kernel, nor any documentation).
>>
> 
> I am trying to steer you to use existing API's because then existing programs and
> infrastructure can deal with the new device type.

I really appreciate that! I want to use existing API's as far as possible. That's why I
keep sending you all these questions. :)


-- 
Arvid Brodin
XDIN AB | Jan Stenbecks Torg 17 | SE-164 40 Kista | Sweden | xdin.com--
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