netdev - Re: Netlink for kernel<->user space communication?

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Message-ID: <20120510093627.781ca007@nehalam.linuxnetplumber.net>
Date:	Thu, 10 May 2012 09:36:27 -0700
From:	Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@...tta.com>
To:	Arvid Brodin <Arvid.Brodin@...n.com>
Cc:	"netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Netlink for kernel<->user space communication?

On Wed, 9 May 2012 23:32:08 +0000
Arvid Brodin <Arvid.Brodin@...n.com> wrote:

> On 2012-05-08 00:33, Stephen Hemminger wrote:
> > On Mon, 7 May 2012 18:43:23 +0000
> > Arvid Brodin <Arvid.Brodin@...n.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:57:55 -0700
> >> Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@...xxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 23:52:34 +0000
> >>> Arvid Brodin <Arvid.Brodin@...xxxxx> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm writing a kernel driver for the HSR protocol, a standard for high availability
> >>>> networks. I want to send messages from the kernel to user space about broken network
> >>>> links. I also want user space to be able to ask the kernel about its view of the status of
> >>>> nodes on the network.
> >>>>
> >>>> Netlink seems like a good tool for this. (Is it?)
> >>>
> >>> Yes.
> >>>
> >>>> But do I use raw netlink? (Described here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7356 - but
> >>>> this seems a bit out of date, the kernel API description differs from today's kernel
> >>>> implementation.)
> >>>
> >>> No. Your driver probably looks like a device so you should be
> >>> using rtnetlink messages.
> >>
> >> I'm already using rtnetlink messages to add and remove my device, which works fine (see
> >> e.g. http://www.spinics.net/lists/netdev/msg192817.html - although I didn't think it
> >> meaningful to include the iproute2 patch here, until the kernel part is ready).
> >>
> >> The protocol specifies transmission of "supervision frames" every 2 seconds, e.g. to check
> >> link integrity. Every such frame should be received from two directions in the ring - if
> >> only one is received, then there is a link problem.
> > 
> > Why not just manipulate the carrier or operational state (see Documentation/networking/operstate)
> > and use the existing notification on link changes. If you don't get heartbeat then change
> > the state of the device to indicate lower device is down with set_operstate(), the necessary
> > link everts propgate back as netlink events.
> 
> With HSR, all nodes in the network ring can detect a link problem anywhere in the ring. So
> I need a way to communicate link problems that does not concern the host's devices at all,
> but rather the state of the network as a whole. A typical message might say "Frames from
> node 01:23:45:67:89:AB is only received over Slave Interface 1!" This indicates a problem
> since all frames should be received over both slave interfaces. The broken link can be
> anywhere between this node and the indicated node. If user space is aware of the network
> topology, it can figure out exactly where the damage is by looking at which nodes' frames
> are received over which slave interface.
> 
> (Thanks for the operstates info though, I hadn't discovered IF_OPER_LOWERLAYERDOWN! I will
> use it to indicate a local slave is down.)

Sounds like a message that is specific to the protocol. Maybe just a log
message would suffice, or having a protocol specific event channel.

> >> I'd like to notify user space about every such occurence. Is there a rtnetlink message
> >> type that fits this? The stuff in rtnetlink.h seems to be mostly concerned with specific
> >> user space commands (there is something called RTNLGRP_NOTIFY but I couldn't find any
> >> instances of it being used in the kernel, nor any documentation).
> >>
> > 
> > I am trying to steer you to use existing API's because then existing programs and
> > infrastructure can deal with the new device type.
> 
> I really appreciate that! I want to use existing API's as far as possible. That's why I
> keep sending you all these questions. :)
> 
> 

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