Date:	Tue, 29 Oct 2013 12:58:38 -0400
From:	Vlad Yasevich <vyasevich@...il.com>
To:	Dan Williams <dcbw@...hat.com>,
	Hannes Frederic Sowa <hannes@...essinduktion.org>
CC:	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>, jiri@...nulli.us,
	netdev@...r.kernel.org, kuznet@....inr.ac.ru, jmorris@...ei.org,
	yoshfuji@...ux-ipv6.org, kaber@...sh.net, thaller@...hat.com,
	stephen@...workplumber.org
Subject: Re: [patch net-next] ipv6: allow userspace to create address with
 IFLA_F_TEMPORARY flag

On 10/29/2013 10:31 AM, Dan Williams wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-10-29 at 00:48 +0100, Hannes Frederic Sowa wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 06:16:19PM -0500, Dan Williams wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2013-10-28 at 17:17 -0400, David Miller wrote:
>>>> From: Hannes Frederic Sowa <hannes@...essinduktion.org>
>>>> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 17:48:35 +0100
>>>>
>>>>> A temporary address is also bound to a non-privacy public address so
>>>>> it's lifetime is determined by its lifetime (e.g. if you switch the
>>>>> network and don't receive on-link information for that prefix any
>>>>> more). NetworkManager would have to take care about that, too. It is
>>>>> just a question of what NetworkManager wants to handle itself or lets
>>>>> the kernel handle for it.
>>>>
>>>> How much really needs to be in userspace to implement RFC4941?
>>>>
>>>> I don't like the idea that even for a fully up and properly
>>>> functioning link, if NetworkManager wedges then critical things like
>>>> temporary address (re-)generation, will cease.
>>>
>>> Honestly, I'd be completely happy to leave temporary address handling up
>>> to the kernel and *not* do it in userspace; the kernel already has all
>>> the code.  There are two problems with that though, (a) it's tied to
>>> in-kernel RA handling, and (b) it's controlled by a CONFIG option.  Both
>>> these are solvable.
>>
>> Ah, (a) does complicate things, I agree. But the tieing is essential
>> currently. So it seems a netlink interface would be needed to tie a new
>> address to an already installed one, if the kernel should still deal
>> with the regeneration?
>
> I think it's simpler than that.  New flag set when adding the
> non-private address that says "create and manage privacy addresses for
> this non-private address".  The kernel then adds the privacy addresses
> generated off the non-private address/prefixlen, and ties their lifetime
> to the non-private address.  If the non-private address is removed, the
> privacy addresses could get removed too.
>
> I don't think we need API to tie addresses to already installed ones,
> because the kernel already has the privacy address generation code, so
> why should userspace generate the privacy address at all?  Just leave
> that to the kernel.
>
>>> First off, what's the reasoning behind having IPv6 privacy as a config
>>> option?  It's off-by-default and must be explicitly turned on, so is
>>> there any harm in removing the config?  Or is it just for
>>> smallest-kernel-ever folks?
>>
>> I don't know about the policy. Does it really matter as distributions
>> normally switch it on? But I would not like to see the option removed
>> entirly, maybe the default could be changed.
>>
>>> Would a new IFA_F_MANAGE_TEMP (or better name) work here, indicating
>>> that for some new static address, that the kernel should create and
>>> manage the temporary privacy addresses associated with its prefix?
>>
>> But this would only be needed if they were managed in user-space, no?
>
> "if they" == what?  privacy address or static address?  What
> NetworkManager is trying to do is handle RAs in userspace with libndp
> for various flexibility and behavioral reasons, but we'd really like to
> leave all the temporary address stuff up to the kernel.
>
> So NM would handle RA/RS and when it gets a prefix, it would create the
> IPv6 non-private address and add it to the interface.  When adding, it
> would also set the "IFA_F_MANAGE_TEMP" flag (or whatever) and the kernel
> would then handle all the privacy address generation, lifetimes, and
> timers.  Basically, break some of the privacy code away from the
> in-kernel RA handling so that privacy addresses could be triggered from
> userland too.
>
> Would that be workable?

You are still dependent on the NM/user app to do this and what happens
if that apps wedges?

I think we should just do privacy addresses automatically, or based on
some sysconfig setting per interface to give users ability to turn it
off.  But I agree with David, and I speak from experience.
You don't whant address configuration to be done by userspace daemon.
There are too many things that can go wrong.

-vlad

>
> Dan
>

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