netdev - Re: [PATCH v1 1/6] net: Generalize udp based tunnel offload

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Message-ID: <20151209125857.GA9900@pox.localdomain>
Date:	Wed, 9 Dec 2015 13:58:57 +0100
From:	Thomas Graf <tgraf@...g.ch>
To:	Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com>
Cc:	Jamal Hadi Salim <jhs@...atatu.com>,
	John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>,
	Tom Herbert <tom@...bertland.com>,
	Hannes Frederic Sowa <hannes@...essinduktion.org>,
	"John W. Linville" <linville@...driver.com>,
	Jesse Gross <jesse@...nel.org>,
	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Anjali Singhai Jain <anjali.singhai@...el.com>,
	Linux Kernel Network Developers <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	Kiran Patil <kiran.patil@...el.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 1/6] net: Generalize udp based tunnel offload

On 12/08/15 at 09:45pm, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> definetely not 1, not 2 and hardly 3.
> bpf verifier in 2k lines does full code analysis with all branches,
> memory accesses and so on, so it's not hard to understand _intent_
> of the program by any HW backend.
> I agree with John that it's not trivial to convert bpf program into
> parse graph that intel asic understands, but it's not hard either.
> fpga based nic/switch can convert a program into parallel gates.
> netronom nic can JIT it into their instruction set.
> Programmable switch asics can equally understand intent of the
> program and convert it into their firmware.
> The easiest would be arm-based nics.
> In all cases HW will not be able to convert all possible programs,
> but it's not a limitation of instruction set. That's why 1 and 2
> above doesn't really apply.
> Different explanation of the above:
> think of bpf as intermediate representation. When C or some other
> language is used to describe what dataplane suppose to do
> the compiler generates bpf==IR which is later compiled by hw specific
> backend into target. That target can be fpga, asic, npu, etc.
> Some backends will be simple and small enough to stay completely
> within kernel. Some backends (like fpga) would need to
> call_usermodehelper() or similar, since netlist compilation is
> tedious and slow process.

Trying to summarize that, the definition of a BPF program in the
context of this discussion is: a BPF program of which the driver
or firmware/NIC can understand the original intent. Unless the NIC
can JIT, this implies reverse engineering the control flow into
a declarative model.

So if the goal is to make the intent available to the hardware in
a format which both the kernel and the hardware can draw the same
conclusions from, wouldn't something like P4 + BPF derived from P4
be a possibly better fit? There is discussion on stateful P4
processing now.
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