netdev - Re: RFC on writel and writel

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Message-ID: <1522272692.21446.42.camel@kernel.crashing.org>
Date:   Thu, 29 Mar 2018 08:31:32 +1100
From:   Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@...nel.crashing.org>
To:     Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@...il.com>,
        David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>
Cc:     paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com, arnd@...db.de,
        linux-rdma@...r.kernel.org, linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org,
        linus971@...il.com, will.deacon@....com, alexander.duyck@...il.com,
        okaya@...eaurora.org, jgg@...pe.ca, David.Laight@...lab.com,
        oohall@...il.com, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
        alexander.h.duyck@...hat.com, torvalds@...ux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: RFC on writel and writel_relaxed

On Thu, 2018-03-29 at 02:23 +1000, Nicholas Piggin wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 11:55:09 -0400 (EDT)
> David Miller <davem@...emloft.net> wrote:
> 
> > From: Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@...nel.crashing.org>
> > Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 02:13:16 +1100
> > 
> > > Let's fix all archs, it's way easier than fixing all drivers. Half of
> > > the archs are unused or dead anyway.  
> > 
> > Agreed.
> 
> While we're making decrees here, can we do something about mmiowb?
> The semantics are basically indecipherable.

I was going to tackle that next :-)

>   This is a variation on the mandatory write barrier that causes writes to weakly
>   ordered I/O regions to be partially ordered.  Its effects may go beyond the
>   CPU->Hardware interface and actually affect the hardware at some level.
> 
> How can a driver writer possibly get that right?
> 
> IIRC it was added for some big ia64 system that was really expensive
> to implement the proper wmb() semantics on. So wmb() semantics were
> quietly downgraded, then the subsequently broken drivers they cared
> about were fixed by adding the stronger mmiowb().
> 
> What should have happened was wmb and writel remained correct, sane, and
> expensive, and they add an mmio_wmb() to order MMIO stores made by the
> writel_relaxed accessors, then use that to speed up the few drivers they
> care about.
> 
> Now that ia64 doesn't matter too much, can we deprecate mmiowb and just
> make wmb ordering talk about stores to the device, not to some
> intermediate stage of the interconnect where it can be subsequently
> reordered wrt the device? Drivers can be converted back to using wmb
> or writel gradually.

I was under the impression that mmiowb was specifically about ordering
writel's with a subsequent spin_unlock, without it, MMIOs from
different CPUs (within the same lock) would still arrive OO.

If that's indeed the case, I would suggest ia64 switches to a similar
per-cpu flag trick powerpc uses.

Cheers,
Ben.

> Thanks,
> Nick