Message-ID: <20180730130747.GH2058@nanopsycho>
Date:   Mon, 30 Jul 2018 15:07:47 +0200
From:   Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>
To:     Michal Kubecek <mkubecek@...e.cz>
Cc:     netdev@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Florian Fainelli <f.fainelli@...il.com>,
        Roopa Prabhu <roopa@...ulusnetworks.com>,
        Jakub Kicinski <kubakici@...pl>,
        "John W. Linville" <linville@...driver.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH net-next v2 00/17] ethtool netlink interface (WiP)

Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 02:52:42PM CEST, mkubecek@...e.cz wrote:
>A netlink based interface for ethtool is a recurring discussion theme;
>such discussion happens from time to time but never seems to reach any
>clear conclusion except that netlink interface is desperately needed.
>I'm sending this hoping that having a proposal (even if partial) on the
>table could help move the discussion further.
>
>The interface used for communication between ethtool and kernel is based on
>ioctl() and suffers from many problems. The most pressing seems the be the
>lack of extensibility. While some of the newer commands use structures
>designed to allow future extensions (e.g. GFEATURES or TEST), most either
>allow no extension at all (GPAUSEPARAM, GCOALESCE) or only limited set of
>reserved fields (GDRVINFO, GEEE). Even most of those which support future
>extensions limit the data types that can be used.
>
>This series aims to provide an alternative interface based on netlink which
>is what other network configuration utilities use. In particular, it uses
>generic netlink (family "ethtool"). The goal is to provide an interface
>which would be extensible, flexible and practical both for ethtool and for
>other network configuration tools (e.g. wicked, systemd-networkd or
>NetworkManager).
>
>The interface is documented in Documentation/networking/ethtool-netlink.txt
>
>A series for ethtool utility will follow shortly.
>
>Basic concepts:
>
>- the interface is based on generic netlink (family name "ethtool")
>
>- the goal is to provide all features of ioctl interface but allow
>  easier future extensions
>
>- inextensibility of ioctl interface resulted in way too many commands,
>  many of them obsoleted by newer ones; reduce the number by  ignoring the
>  obsolete commands and grouping some together
>
>- for "set" type commands, netlink allows providing only the attributes to
>  be changed; therefore we don't need a get-modify-set cycle (which is
>  inherently racy), userspace can simply say what it wants to change
>
>- provide notifications to multicast group "monitor" like rtnetlink
>  does, i.e. in the form of messages close to replies to "get" requests
>
>- allow dump requests to get some information about all network defices
>  providing it
>
>- be less dependent on ethtool and kernel being in sync; allow e.g. saying
>  "ethtool -s eth0 advertise foo off" without ethtool knowing what "foo"
>  means; it's kernel's job to know what mode "xyz" is and if it exists
>  and is supported
>
>Main changes again RFC v1:
>
>- support dumps for all "get" requests
>- provide notifications for changes related to supported request types
>- support getting string sets (both global and per device)
>- support getting/setting device features
>- get rid of family specific header, everything passed as attributes
>- split netlink code into multiple files in net/ethtool/ directory
>
>ToDo / open questions:
>
>- as some comments in discussion on v1 pointed out, some features of
>  ethtool would rather belong to devlink; phy_tunables and phy_stats
>  seem to be candidates, maybe part of drvinfo; are there more?
>
>- another question is where to do the split; should ethtool use devlink
>  API for these or can we provide them in ethtool API as well but with
>  devlink backend (for communication with NIC)

My idea was to provide a compat layer for it. But I also wanted to
change the implementation of driver callbacks and provide compat layer
for it too. Current ethtool callbacks are very tightly wrapped around
the uapi structs.

Please see the last slide:
http://vger.kernel.org/netconf2018_files/JiriPirko_netconf2018.pdf

I started to work on POC implementation but got distracted.
Perhaps we can sync over a beer :)



>
>- currently, all communication with drivers via ethtool_ops is done
>  under RTNL as this is what ioctl interface does and I suspect many
>  ethtool_ops rely on that; can we do without RTNL?
>
>- notifications are sent whenever a change is done via netlink API or
>  ioctl API and for netdev features also whenever they are updated using
>  netdev_change_features(); it would be desirable to notify also about
>  link state and negotiation result (speed/duplex and partner link
>  modes) but it would be more tricky
>
>- find reasonable format for data transfers (e.g. eeprom dump or flash);
>  I don't have clear idea how big these can get and if 64 KB limit on
>  attribute size (including nested ones) is a problem; if so, dumps can
>  be an answer for dumps, some kind of multi-message requests would be
>  needed for flashes

This is another thing that should go into devlink as it is not
netdev-handled. We have now a "region" facility there which can be
re-used.


>
>- while the netlink interface allows easy future extensions, ethtool_ops
>  interface does not; some settings could be implemented using tunables and
>  accessed via relevant netlink messages (as well as tunables) from
>  userspace but in the long term, something better will be needed
>
>- it would be nice if driver could provide useful error/warning messages to
>  be passed to userspace via extended ACK; example: while testing, I found
>  a driver which only allows values 0, 1, 3 and 10000 for certain parameter
>  but the only way poor user can find out is either by trying all values or
>  by checking driver source
>
>- some of the functions for GET_SETTINGS and GET_PARAMS are quite
>  similar (e.g. ethtool_get_*); it might be beneficial to introduce some
>  "ops", leave only "parse", "prepare", "size" and "fill" handlers and
>  make the rest generic (like ethnl_dumpit()).
>
>- the counts and sizes in GET_DRVINFO reply seem to be a relic of the
>  past and if userspace needs them, there are (or will be) other ways to
>  get them; they should most likely go
>
>
>Michal Kubecek (17):
>  netlink: introduce nla_put_bitfield32()
>  ethtool: move to its own directory
>  ethtool: introduce ethtool netlink interface
>  ethtool: helper functions for netlink interface
>  ethtool: netlink bitset handling
>  ethtool: support for netlink notifications
>  ethtool: implement EVENT notifications
>  ethtool: implement GET_STRSET message
>  ethtool: implement GET_DRVINFO message
>  ethtool: implement GET_SETTINGS message
>  ethtool: implement GET_SETTINGS request for features
>  ethtool: implement SET_SETTINGS notification
>  ethtool: implement SET_SETTINGS message
>  ethtool: implement SET_SETTINGS request for features
>  ethtool: implement GET_PARAMS message
>  ethtool: implement SET_PARAMS notification
>  ethtool: implement SET_PARAMS message
>
> Documentation/networking/ethtool-netlink.txt |  558 ++++++++
> include/linux/ethtool_netlink.h              |   17 +
> include/linux/netdevice.h                    |   25 +
> include/net/netlink.h                        |   15 +
> include/uapi/linux/ethtool.h                 |    7 +
> include/uapi/linux/ethtool_netlink.h         |  325 +++++
> net/Kconfig                                  |    7 +
> net/Makefile                                 |    2 +-
> net/core/Makefile                            |    2 +-
> net/core/dev.c                               |   27 +-
> net/ethtool/Makefile                         |    7 +
> net/ethtool/common.c                         |  242 ++++
> net/ethtool/common.h                         |   26 +
> net/ethtool/drvinfo.c                        |  131 ++
> net/{core/ethtool.c => ethtool/ioctl.c}      |  310 ++---
> net/ethtool/netlink.c                        |  840 ++++++++++++
> net/ethtool/netlink.h                        |  169 +++
> net/ethtool/params.c                         | 1008 ++++++++++++++
> net/ethtool/settings.c                       | 1230 ++++++++++++++++++
> net/ethtool/strset.c                         |  552 ++++++++
> 20 files changed, 5269 insertions(+), 231 deletions(-)
> create mode 100644 Documentation/networking/ethtool-netlink.txt
> create mode 100644 include/linux/ethtool_netlink.h
> create mode 100644 include/uapi/linux/ethtool_netlink.h
> create mode 100644 net/ethtool/Makefile
> create mode 100644 net/ethtool/common.c
> create mode 100644 net/ethtool/common.h
> create mode 100644 net/ethtool/drvinfo.c
> rename net/{core/ethtool.c => ethtool/ioctl.c} (88%)
> create mode 100644 net/ethtool/netlink.c
> create mode 100644 net/ethtool/netlink.h
> create mode 100644 net/ethtool/params.c
> create mode 100644 net/ethtool/settings.c
> create mode 100644 net/ethtool/strset.c
>
>-- 
>2.18.0
>

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