Message-ID: <f68e3920-6186-c409-6b7b-1ce3e094dd56@redhat.com>
Date:   Tue, 8 Jan 2019 18:06:45 +0800
From:   Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>
To:     "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
Cc:     linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, maxime.coquelin@...hat.com,
        tiwei.bie@...el.com, wexu@...hat.com, jfreimann@...hat.com,
        "David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
        virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org, netdev@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 1/2] virtio-net: bql support


On 2019/1/7 下午10:19, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2019 at 02:31:47PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
>> On 2019/1/7 下午12:01, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jan 07, 2019 at 11:51:55AM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
>>>> On 2019/1/7 上午11:17, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 07, 2019 at 10:14:37AM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
>>>>>> On 2019/1/2 下午9:59, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 02, 2019 at 11:28:43AM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2018/12/31 上午2:45, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 06:00:36PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2018/12/26 下午11:19, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 06, 2018 at 04:17:36PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2018/12/6 上午6:54, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When use_napi is set, let's enable BQLs.  Note: some of the issues are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to wifi.  It's worth considering whether something similar to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> commit 36148c2bbfbe ("mac80211: Adjust TSQ pacing shift") might be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefitial.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've played a similar patch several days before. The tricky part is the mode
>>>>>>>>>>>> switching between napi and no napi. We should make sure when the packet is
>>>>>>>>>>>> sent and trakced by BQL,  it should be consumed by BQL as well. I did it by
>>>>>>>>>>>> tracking it through skb->cb.  And deal with the freeze by reset the BQL
>>>>>>>>>>>> status. Patch attached.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But when testing with vhost-net, I don't very a stable performance,
>>>>>>>>>>> So how about increasing TSQ pacing shift then?
>>>>>>>>>> I can test this. But changing default TCP value is much more than a
>>>>>>>>>> virtio-net specific thing.
>>>>>>>>> Well same logic as wifi applies. Unpredictable latencies related
>>>>>>>>> to radio in one case, to host scheduler in the other.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> probably because we batch the used ring updating so tx interrupt may come
>>>>>>>>>>>> randomly. We probably need to implement time bounded coalescing mechanism
>>>>>>>>>>>> which could be configured from userspace.
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think it's reasonable to expect userspace to be that smart ...
>>>>>>>>>>> Why do we need time bounded? used ring is always updated when ring
>>>>>>>>>>> becomes empty.
>>>>>>>>>> We don't add used when means BQL may not see the consumed packet in time.
>>>>>>>>>> And the delay varies based on the workload since we count packets not bytes
>>>>>>>>>> or time before doing the batched updating.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>> Sorry I still don't get it.
>>>>>>>>> When nothing is outstanding then we do update the used.
>>>>>>>>> So if BQL stops userspace from sending packets then
>>>>>>>>> we get an interrupt and packets start flowing again.
>>>>>>>> Yes, but how about the cases of multiple flows. That's where I see unstable
>>>>>>>> results.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It might be suboptimal, we might need to tune it but I doubt running
>>>>>>>>> timers is a solution, timer interrupts cause VM exits.
>>>>>>>> Probably not a timer but a time counter (or event byte counter) in vhost to
>>>>>>>> add used and signal guest if it exceeds a value instead of waiting the
>>>>>>>> number of packets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Well we already have VHOST_NET_WEIGHT - is it too big then?
>>>>>> I'm not sure, it might be too big.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And maybe we should expose the "MORE" flag in the descriptor -
>>>>>>> do you think that will help?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know. But how a "more" flag can help here?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> It sounds like we should be a bit more aggressive in updating used ring.
>>>>> But if we just do it naively we will harm performance for sure as that
>>>>> is how we are doing batching right now.
>>>> I agree but the problem is to balance the PPS and throughput. More batching
>>>> helps for PPS but may damage TCP throughput.
>>> That is what more flag is supposed to be I think - it is only set if
>>> there's a socket that actually needs the skb freed in order to go on.
>>
>> I'm not quite sure I get, but is this something similar to what you want?
>>
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/virtualization/2014-October/027667.html
>>
>> Which enables tx interrupt for TCP packets, and you want to add used more
>> aggressively for those sockets?
>>
>>
>> Thanks
> That's the idea.
> But then you said we can just play with event index
> instead. I think the answer to why not do that is that it's tricky to do
> without races.


We don't do batched used ring update at that time. We can check whether 
or not guest asking for a interrupt and add used immediately. Actually, 
I've played a patch to do this. It helps a little but damage the PPS. 
This is probably because we need more userspace memory accesses.


>
>
> We need to think about the exact semantics: e.g. I think it is better to
> keep interrupts on and then saying "I promise sending more buffers even
> if you do not use any buffers so using this one is not urgent" rather
> than as your patches do keeping them off and then saying "this one is
> urgent".
>
> The reason being is that "I promise to send more" is
> more informative and can allow better batching for the
> host.


Just to make sure I understand, you mean set batch flag for e.g non TCP 
socket?

Thanks


>
>>>>>     Instead we could make guest
>>>>> control batching using the more flag - if that's not set we write out
>>>>> the used ring.
>>>> It's under the control of guest, so I'm afraid we still need some more guard
>>>> (e.g time/bytes counters) on host.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>> Point is if guest does not care about the skb being freed, then there is no
>>> rush host side to mark buffer used.
>>>
>>>

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