lists  /  announce  owl-users  owl-dev  john-users  john-dev  passwdqc-users  yescrypt  popa3d-users  /  oss-security  kernel-hardening  musl  sabotage  tlsify  passwords  /  crypt-dev  xvendor  /  Bugtraq  Full-Disclosure  linux-kernel  linux-netdev  linux-ext4  linux-hardening  linux-cve-announce  PHC 
Open Source and information security mailing list archives
Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.
[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]
Date:   Wed, 3 Apr 2019 22:10:18 +0200
From:   Heiner Kallweit <>
To:     Frederick Lawler <>
Cc:     Bjorn Helgaas <>,
        Florian Fainelli <>,
        David Miller <>,
        Realtek linux nic maintainers <>,
        "" <>,
        "" <>,
        Rajat Jain <>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net] r8169: switch off ASPM by default and add sysfs
 attribute to control ASPM

On 03.04.2019 21:18, Frederick Lawler wrote:
> Heiner Kallweit wrote on 4/3/19 12:45 PM:
>> On 03.04.2019 15:14, Bjorn Helgaas wrote:
>>> [+cc Frederick]
>>> On Wed, Apr 03, 2019 at 07:53:40AM +0200, Heiner Kallweit wrote:
>>>> On 02.04.2019 23:57, Bjorn Helgaas wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 02, 2019 at 10:41:20PM +0200, Heiner Kallweit wrote:
>>>>>> On 02.04.2019 22:16, Florian Fainelli wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/2/19 12:55 PM, Heiner Kallweit wrote:
>>>>>>>> There are numerous reports about different problems caused by ASPM
>>>>>>>> incompatibilities between certain network chip versions and board
>>>>>>>> chipsets. On the other hand on (especially mobile) systems where ASPM
>>>>>>>> works properly it can significantly contribute to power-saving and
>>>>>>>> increased battery runtime.
>>>>>>>> One problem so far to make ASPM configurable was to find an acceptable
>>>>>>>> way of configuration (e.g. module parameters are discouraged for that
>>>>>>>> purpose).
>>>>>>>> As a new attempt let's switch off ASPM per default and make it
>>>>>>>> configurable by a sysfs attribute. The attribute is documented in
>>>>>>>> new file Documentation/networking/device_drivers/realtek/r8169.txt.
>>>>> Both module parameters and sysfs attributes are a poor user
>>>>> experience.  It's very difficult for users to figure out that
>>>>> a tweak is needed.
>>>>>>> I am not sure this is where it should be solved, there is
>>>>>>> definitively a device specific aspect to properly supporting the
>>>>>>> enabling of ASPM L0s, L1s etc, but the actual sysfs knobs should
>>>>>>> belong to the pci_device itself, since this is something that
>>>>>>> likely other drivers would want to be able to expose. You would
>>>>>>> probably want to work with the PCI maintainers to come up with a
>>>>>>> standard solution that applies beyond just r8169 since presumably
>>>>>>> there must be a gazillion of devices with the same issues.
>>>>> The Linux PCI core support for ASPM is poor.  Without more details,
>>>>> it's impossible to tell whether these issues are hardware or firmware
>>>>> defects on the device itself, or something that Linux is doing wrong.
>>>>> There are several known defects, especially related to L1 substates
>>>>> and hotplug.
>>>> The vendor refuses to release datasheets or errata. Only certain
>>>> combinations of board chipsets (and maybe BIOS versions) and network
>>>> chip versions (from the ~ 50 supported by the driver) seem to be
>>>> affected. One typical symptom is missed RX packets, maybe the RX FIFO
>>>> isn't big enough to buffer all packets until PCIe has woken up.
>>>> The Windows vendor driver uses a hack, they dynamically disable ASPM
>>>> under load.
>>> I'm not super sympathetic to vendors like that or to OEMs that work
>>> with them.  If we can make the NIC work reliably by disabling ASPM,
>>> that's step one.  If we can figure out how to extend battery life by
>>> enabling ASPM in some cases, great, but we have to be careful to do it
>>> in a way that is supportable and doesn't generate lots of user
>>> complaints that require debugging.
>>> That said, I think Frederick has already started working on a plan for
>>> the PCI core to expose sysfs files to manage ASPM.  This is similar to
>>> the link_state files enabled by CONFIG_PCIEASPM_DEBUG, but it will be
>>> always enabled and probably structured slightly differently.  The idea
>>> is that this would be generic and would not require any driver
>>> support.
>> Thanks, Bjorn!
>> Frederick, is there anything you could share already? Or any timeline?
> Heiner,
> I've been on hold for this pet project for a bit. If you're willing to take this one on, all the merrier :)
> The plan is the sysfs files would sit on the endpoint devices, and given a supported state value, configure the link(s) for the endpoints upstream port to its immediate root port or switch downstream port. Then, this allows something else handle the walking of the tree via the ABI. We don't necessarily want to configure sibling links under a switch.
> I'm currently traveling, and I can't get you patches until this weekend.
Thanks for the update. I'm not in a hurry, send me whatever you have already once you have time.
Then I can check whether I think I can move forward with it.

>> Based on Bjorns info what seems to be best to me:
>> 1. Disable ASPM for r8169 on stable (back to 4.19).
>> 2. Once the generic ASPM sysfs attributes are available, reenable ASPM
>>     for r8169 in net-next.
>>> Bjorn
>> Heiner
> Frederick Lawler

Powered by blists - more mailing lists